1969E Targa front suspension

[phillyg]

Currently restoring a 1969 911E targa with the orig hydra-pneumatic front suspension. kits to swap out are expensive. Any idea's on what year cars if any can i find parts off a junked car that would work for this.Any help would be appreciated.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

You will want any strut from 69 to 89 that has 3.5 inch brake caliper spacing to work with your early alloy calipers. Options are Koni, Bilstein and Boge. If you are just going to drive the car with no aspirations of going to the track, you should be able to get a pair of SC/Carrera Boge's for $300 for the pair.

A-arms for torsion bar 911s all fit the same years, 69-89. You have 2 choices: early cars with through body sway bars have a U tab on the arm, cars with under body sway bars have a hoop. Either one will work, and if you get later arms, you can cut the hoops off and weld on U tabs.

Assuming you want stock 19mm torsion bars, those are basically free. I may have a set you can have.

Crossmember: you will have the early steel member and if original, the unique 2-piece MFI fuel pump mounting cradle. If you do, I would just bead blast and powder coat your current crossmember and the pump cradle. If not original, you can opt for the Al crossmember found in later year cars.

Cost breakdown make look something like this:

Front struts used: $300 to $450
New strut inserts: See Pelican catalog
New ball joints and castle nut: See Pelican catalog
New strut pin: See Pelican catalog
A-arms: $100 to $200 for the pair
Torsion bar adjusters: $30 to $50 for the pair
19mm torsion bars: Free
Seals: make your own
Al crossmember: $100


Something else to look for, that is the rubber mounts on the A-arms will be old and their useful life may be at an end.

One thing to check before getting A-arms is yours may well have arms with splines in the front to accept bars. Once out, you can shine a light inside or poke the end caps off to check.

Hope this helps.

[phillyg]

Thanks Shaun that info really helps.

[RWebb]

go to P AG's site & download the PET - go thru it carefully & compare to get p/n's

also consider what aftermarket items you want - Elph. polybronze or rubber vs. Rebel Racing

anti-sway bar, shocks inserts, etc.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by phillyg

Thanks Shaun that info really helps.

My pleasure. Email me if you need help with any specifics. Are you in Philly? I have a great friend in Ardmore restoring my old 69E. I'm sure he can help as well.

Have any pics of your car you can post?

I may be interested in your hydro's BTW.

[phillyg]

Shawn the car is in Long island NY. I live in Florida for the past year. My Brother inlaws friend is restoring the car for me. In retrospect I wish I just brought it dn and did it myself. But at the Time it was a good idea. I have a question there is no way to just replace the strut it self and keep the original set up. i orig wanted to keep it all orig thought it might be worth more dn the road. But I learned one thing from the last time I had the struts replaced Use the car.Sitting around ruins the car. If you friend has any other idea i am open for sugestions. let me give you my diect email. Waterview11@yahoo.com.

[phillyg]

any do's and dont' are appreciated since this my first restore. Engine was rebuilt 10 years ago but sat most of the time. some rot under battery boxs and one floor section also front suspension pan needs to be replaced do to rot. does it matter if floor pans are OEM or aftermart will do not killing any value. I want the car to nice but I intend on driving it. but dont want to destroy the value either.

[Grady Clay]

phillyg,

There are some subtleness for ’71 911E (and part of ’70) you should not need to deal with for your ’69 (but you never know).
Porsche (cleverly) made the ’71 (some ’70?) 911E A-arms without the provision to have torsion bars later installed. Same with the front cross member.
Your ‘69E should have the same parts as non-Hydropneumatic suspension. You should only need to replace the struts and ball joints.

Your struts came with ‘pinch-bolt’ type ball joints. Many (including me) consider this a defective attachment method. With new struts, you will use the ‘wedge-pin’ type ball joint (much superior).
Also, use this opportunity to install ‘Turbo tie rods’.

You will find a later strut (starting in ’74) with a larger spindle thread (requiring a larger adjusting nut and washer) and a self-centering hub. These are worthwhile updates.
You are going to need new wheel bearing lip seals and the O-ring under the seal race. Consider new wheel bearings.
You are going to want new rubber flex hoses for the brakes (do all four, F&R).
While apart, cycle the pistons in the calipers. Consider new brake pads if old or worn. Make sure the pads are free in the calipers.
Inspect the brake master cylinder for leakage (it can leak into the pedal assembly). Replace the master cylinder if old or suspect.

Save your Hydropneumatic struts (garage wall decoration). Someday, someone will have the skills to rebuild those as original. (I sadly threw away a crate of more than 100 of these used struts.)

Best,
Grady

[porschecab]

I have a '69 that is going to have some parts removed, like the hydro suspension should anyone be interested!

[blue72s]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

Crossmember: you will have the early steel member and if original, the unique 2-piece MFI fuel pump mounting cradle.

Reviving this old thread.
Shaun - Do you have a picture of the unique 2-piece mounting cradle? Not seen that before.

Thanks.

[PeteKz]

I just read through this too. Shaun, why did you recommend replacing the A-arms and cross member? Are they different on the hydra-pneumatic front end? Otherwise, it would appear to me that only the struts need to be replaced, and everything else left alone. Just curious.

[john walker's workshop]

No torsion bar splines in E arms. Useless.

[PeteKz]

John, thanks. So the springing of the front comes entirely from the hydra-pneumatic struts. Interesting.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by blue72s

Reviving this old thread.
Shaun - Do you have a picture of the unique 2-piece mounting cradle? Not seen that before.

Thanks.

I don't but I have at least one in storage for my 69S, it was special ordered with the hydrapneumatic suspension. I had a 69E before that.

I have two pair of struts, I am sure someone can rebuild them, either Sachs or Citroën. What I don't have is the correct crossmember which is a different part number from torsion bar crossmembers.

But I would like to put the hydra struts on the car someday.

[nickelplated5s]

This was untimely. Just at the shop my 69S motor is sitting in this morning. Waiting on the pump and you should ballpark 6 months for that. If Shaun can't answer I can in a few days, shop is on the other side of town.

You make me laugh Pete. They are called hydro pnemo for a reason. What I didn't know and Shaun pointed out is early ones have splines for T bars.

[nickelplated5s]

This was untimely. Just at the shop my 69S motor is sitting in this morning. Waiting on the pump and you should ballpark 6 months for that. If Shaun can't answer I can in a few days, shop is on the other side of town.

You make me laugh Pete. They are called hydro pnemo for a reason. What I didn't know and Shaun pointed out is early ones have splines for T bars.

[PeteKz]

Well, most air-suspension cars use air bags in addition to springs. Not knowing anything about the hydra pneumatic struts, I just sort of figured they also used torsion bars to provide part of the springing.