What ECU are you using for your EFI setup?

[rwest]

Hi,

I’m currently using MS-2 with EDIS and have troubleshooted everything I can think of and can’t figure out what is causing my intermittent lean reading on my laptop and poor performance when it occurs.

I don’t like the EDIS since it is such old tech, so decided to cut my losses and get a new ECU that supports COPs.

What are you using, why and would you recommend it? Also how costly is it? I know people like Motec, but it appears to be over $2,000 and then you have to buy a custom tune as well?

I haven’t had any luck finding an aircooled tuner in the MN metro area, so that isn’t a consideration that I need to figure in to my decision.

Thanks for any guidance.

[Showdown]

I had an MS3, then went to MS3ProMini and for the next iteration it’ll be MS3Pro Evo+.

Yeah, I’m team Megasquirt.

I know people often dump on it because it’s not motec or haltech and not something that should be in a PORSCHE! But it delivers everything that the others do and in some cases more.

A few particularly important things for me:

-Onboard barometric pressure sensor
-91 pins with everything you could want- seriously
-It’s not quite open source but the supporting community is robust and dwarfs any other standalone
-TunerStudio is very mature, constantly being developed and massively powerful. Also Mac native
-it’s been around forever and I have yet to find a tuner who isn’t familiar with it.
-it’s so customizable that if you can think it, it probably can be done if it hasn’t already.

I looked at ecumaster, maxxecu, link and the other two and couldn’t find something that had all the features I wanted built in without external add ons for the price.

And for what it’s worth, every time I’ve run into a problem, a quick post to the msextra forum and I have a gang of folks troubleshooting with me.

This is not to say that the other products are bad: I’m sure they’re great for other people and maybe one day they’ll be great for me but for right now it’s the sweet spot for features, cost, and capabilities.


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[rwest]

Thanks Julian,

You make a few powerful points and are making my choice harder!

[Rivet]

I have been tuning/calibrating professionally for 25 years as of this year and in that time have used just about every engine management, both main stream and obscure, as well as OEM. I have also tuned ignition only devices, distributors, magnetos, mechanical injection and carburetors within that time period.

The applications I have been involved with are everything from street vehicles with full emissions equipment in place all the way to full blown national race winners and land speed record holders with very large budgets and very little rules. Fuels have been from pump gas to exotic custom fuel blends of my own making.

I only say this to give some background as to my experiences and where I am in my path to enlightment. I will be the first to say I am learning everyday and I do not know everything and really love my career.

With that being said I have preferences as to which engine management systems I get involved in. And ultimately that is a large part of the decision making when making a choice as a consumer, who will be doing either the calibrating/install or the support if you are doing everything yourself because most of the mainstream systems will physically get the job done in a lot of cases.

I made a decision about seven years ago to grab onto one specific brand to really spend a huge amount of R&D time into, to really become an "expert" in. I really had full flexibility with this choice and I still retain dealer status with multiple solutions and still tune other EMS with some exceptions. After a considerable amount of time of mulling I decided on Maxxecu.

With one Maxxecu model exception it will not require any additional boxes when used with smart coils with on board ignition drivers. They also have an on-board MAP and baro sensor that can be reassigned or turned off if you prefer different hardware. The Race also offers 8 thermocouple on-board that can be reassigned to various uses, not just EGT, twin bank knock sensing, twin H bridge control etc.

It comes with literally the most flexible software available as delivered, no custom firmware needed. Every table is fully adjustable with axis channel selection, cell resolutions as well as expanding to 4 dimensions of adjustability. It also comes with 1k hz on board logging as standard with no upgrading required. Full custom internal output control and math channels and not that most of us need it but the most powerful and flexible CAN architecture.

They are also very open to adding native support to new features during firmware updates. And they are very active in improving their product.

The true speed density fuel modeling working in the background is exceptional if you do your part in supplying the correct base information.

Hardware wise it splits all computing between three individual processors making it one of, if not the quickest processing units on the market. And to date there has not been one hardware failure that was not caused by install errors (and most have been good will repaired when it has happened).

Having all this at the price point they are offered at is truly exceptional.

It is the choice of some current factory race teams, Ed Pink racing engines, and my personal vehicles .

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[mikesarge]

I’m running motec because I wanted good local support, and that’s the only ECU my local air cooled “race” shop will tune, simple as that.

[scarceller]

In the 84-89 3.2L Engines I live tune using stock DME with my custom MAF and custom injector calibration. Basically, I have the ability to properly model any Injector and any MAF device. I simply need the specs for the injector and the MAF.
No need to replace or rip out any wiring, works without modifying any harnesses.
Not to mention, MAF is hands down the best solution for metering air flow! It's dead on accurate and fully compensated for Intake Temps and Altitude changes.

But Motec is by far one of the very best aftermarket EFI solutions! I believe it also supports MAF for air modeling.

[rwest]

Thanks rivet,

I really like what I saw when looking at the Maxxecu website. I currently only have the crank sensor, but am not opposed to adding a cam sensor if needed.

What system do you recommend for a 2.7 with PMO ITBs. I just want a reliable fun driving car without too much fuss. I want to have idle air control for good cold starts.

What are your thoughts on wasted spark with COPs? Would having them go off twice as much cause longevity or performance issues?

Do any systems support two O2 sensors? I currently just have the one, but could see benefits in having one on the other bank for troubleshooting etc.

Thanks for your time,
Rutager

[rwest]

Originally Posted by mikesarge

I’m running motec because I wanted good local support, and that’s the only ECU my local air cooled “race” shop will tune, simple as that.

Thanks Mike,

That would be the dream to have a shop to fall back on, but I have done a lot of searching and made many phone calls and if I had a Subaru, JDM or American muscle style car, I would be set here in MN, but I’m going to be on my own with a modified vintage Porsche.

If you don’t mind, what does Motec cost in hardware?

Rutager

[Rivet]

Originally Posted by rwest

Thanks rivet,



I really like what I saw when looking at the Maxxecu website. I currently only have the crank sensor, but am not opposed to adding a cam sensor if needed.



What system do you recommend for a 2.7 with PMO ITBs. I just want a reliable fun driving car without too much fuss. I want to have idle air control for good cold starts.



What are your thoughts on wasted spark with COPs? Would having them go off twice as much cause longevity or performance issues?



Do any systems support two O2 sensors? I currently just have the one, but could see benefits in having one on the other bank for troubleshooting etc.



Thanks for your time,

Rutager

You actually do not need a home sensor for full sequential, which I highly recommend (more time for coil to recover and charge, along with performance increase overall)

For applications that do not have a physical home sensor you can utilize, MAP as cam sync.

This feature requires you to connect the map sensor to cylinder 1 intake only and not to a plenum of all the intake ports. Then configure the calibration for your particular intake pulse during cranking.

This way of finding compression stroke is used on a few OEM motorcycles such as some Kawasakis, Harley Davidson, and some Japanese dirt bikes.

Maxxecu implemented MAP as sync a few years ago and I have used it on a few motors. After cold and warm start is tuned it works perfectly.

I highly recommend a second bank lambda sensor. The Pro model has two bank on board control but is way overkill for our cars, the other models can expand to a second lambda controller via CAN or 0-5v input. I recommend Maxxecu's own CAN external controller for this.

The best value if knock control is not needed is the Sport model, Street would be next if you will not use fly by wire and have minimal extra sensors. I think the added cost of the Race is worth it though.

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[Showdown]

[mention]Rivet [/mention]

You mentioned the onboard baro sensor, I didn’t see an option for two built in sensors on the race. Presuming that it’s used for engine MAP, how is altitude adjustment handled? Would an external baro sensor be needed and connected to an analog input?


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[Rivet]

Originally Posted by Showdown

[mention]Rivet [/mention]

You mentioned the onboard baro sensor, I didn’t see an option for two built in sensors on the race. Presuming that it’s used for engine MAP, how is altitude adjustment handled? Would an external baro sensor be needed and connected to an analog input?


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It uses the same sensor for dual purpose. It will take a baro sample at key on before starting, then switch to MAP only on start up.

For most this situation will work great. But on a Pikes Peak race car or someone that will consistently see a multiple thousand feet elevation change in one drive cycle, a second external baro or MAP can be wired into an analog input.

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[KMoore68]

What version of MS2 are you running?

Apparently V357 supports up to 6 outputs for sequential ignition control, I think you'd need to make some changes to the ECU board to support this but it may be the most cost effective if you already have a crank trigger.

[968gene]

Haltech here with https://www.tunedbyshawn.com/ support. Everything online. He is a wizard. I started with AEM and the tech support was Honda centric and no one could help me. Using the stock sensors was the problem for the AEM. Haltech? installed it and hit the key…the car idled.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by KMoore68

What version of MS2 are you running?

Apparently V357 supports up to 6 outputs for sequential ignition control, I think you'd need to make some changes to the ECU board to support this but it may be the most cost effective if you already have a crank trigger.

Hi Kevin,

I think I have the latest version, but I’m uncertain if my ECU could be the problem and frankly the MS-2 just seems less professional than my comfort level. Reminds me of an Heathkit, but maybe I’m being too harsh?

[Jeff Alton]

We have used Haltech, AEM, Microtech and ECUMASTER all with good results, and very adaptable.

Cheers

[montauk]

Haltech Nexus R3. I wanted the built in PDU so I could avoid having external relays. As a first time user, I found it easy to work with. I sent two questions to Haltech. I don't remember the first one. The second one was about injector data so not really specific to Haltech. They never answered either one. I'm a bit concerned about that. On the other hand, they have a ton of YouTube videos that were extremely helpful. I'm considering converting my E type and not needing a cam sensor by using MAP sounds like a great idea. There may be a MaxxECU in my future.

[evan9eleven]

I'm with Rivet on this one, though I don't have the experience he does behind me!

I'm running MS2 now, while my local dyno tuner is an expert on MaxxECU. When I had my car on his dyno, he took the time to objectively show me the differences in these two controllers, especially when it comes to things like accel enrichment. I'll save you the details, but it became obvious that I could have saved myself a lot of time street tuning if the system was better to begin with. Others will certainly disagree.

I think a key ingredient here is to ask yourself if you will tune everything yourself, or on a dyno, or as I did with a combination of the two. For my money and time, it makes a lot of sense to go with an ECU that my dyno guy is not only an expert with, but also a beta tester and collaborative partner for Maxx. He knows it backwards and forwards, which will make my life a whole lot easier.

He's not alone; Maxx is an ECU that is supported by a lot of tuners around here, and used by many guys who've gone to EFI on their Porsches (both air-cooled as well as modern turbos and race cars.) Perhaps not surprising since the company is based here in Scandinavia. I'll be going with one of the solutions from Maxx on my next engine.

[Oi3ler]

When I bought my ECU, the leading factor was who can tune it and are they local. I finally narrowed it down between MaxxECU and Emtron. Ultimately picked Maxx because of the support. (S/O JPNovak here on the forums). I am still taking online courses to learn how to maximize the software and tuning practices, but without the know-how from someone experienced, it can get pretty sad pretty quick.

For what it's worth, I know one member had issues with vacuum leak on the new PMO ITBs which created a tuning nightmare. I don't know if the issue has been fixed, but wanted to give a heads up.

[mepstein]

I’ve had numerous people tell me PMO isn’t what it used to be. Race car mechanics, machine shop owners, etc.

[Rivet]

Originally Posted by Oi3ler

When I bought my ECU, the leading factor was who can tune it and are they local. I finally narrowed it down between MaxxECU and Emtron. Ultimately picked Maxx because of the support. (S/O JPNovak here on the forums). I am still taking online courses to learn how to maximize the software and tuning practices, but without the know-how from someone experienced, it can get pretty sad pretty quick.

For what it's worth, I know one member had issues with vacuum leak on the new PMO ITBs which created a tuning nightmare. I don't know if the issue has been fixed, but wanted to give a heads up.

I actually turned JPNovak into a Maxxecu ecu convert through Icarp's introduction a couple years ago while at PRI and supplied him with a couple systems after our conversation.

He is a knowledgeable fellow and I always have a good time talking to him.

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