Which Rebuilder to use?

[Andras Nagy]

Here's a question for all of you with your vast experience (and not to mention even vaster opinions (which is not a put-down)).

I believe my 1983 SC needs either valve guides and/or piston rings. I am in the throes of trying to decide which mechanic to use - a 35 year veteran with factory training (which makes him about 55-60 years old, let's call him John), or the middle-aged mechanic of a racing shop who preps cars for Daytona, Sebring and LeMans (let's call him Roger).

Further complications towards my decision:
1. John has a very messy shop, and no clean engine room, though he does have a separate "room" for rebuilds, both engine and tansmission. He does lots of straight rebuilds and lots of modified rebuilds.
2. Roger has very neat shop areas, and a separate clean room for engines and transmissions, which are truly clean (in fact, spotless). But then he is a race shop, primarily.
3. John has twice the experience (in years of service) building street cars.
4. Roger has half the experience, but builds race engines and trannies which last 24 hours for races, so must also know Porsches forwards and backwards. He also does mods of streets cars, and wants to get into more of it to supplement his race sponsorships, etc.
5. John is willing to do a compression test and leak down test, as is Roger.
6. John is very sincere, and seems honest as the day is long.
7. Roger is equally sincere, and must be honest since he does get and keeps race sponsorship, year after year.
8. John is willing to let me detail the engine compartment during the weekends and/or nights, as is Roger.

So, which to use? And since cost is no object (as least as I have defined the dilemma), which would be the best one to use - wizened experience or middle experience?

HELP.................Andras

[Rick Lee]

Did you get this out of the Mensa Club logic problem booklet? I think the answer is to crate your engine and ship it to John Walker.

[Dantilla]

Sell the 3.0 and get a 3.6?

[nostatic]

which one is on the train to Albequerque?

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Washington! JW is the man to do it if you are not doing it yourself.

If you must do the local guy, I always like GREAT experience over repetitive. There are things I do well, have done them for years, and done them the same way only to find out from the new guy that a better way that actually works better and takes less time has existed for years.

If a person has practiced wrong or minimally for years, they will continue the practice when they get to you. Talk to recent users. Look at how their vehicles are running now that there is no warranty. Make an informed decision, not a gut feel. Remember, 50% of all certified practitioners are in the bottom half of their piers.

[speeder]

I think that both gentlemen easily pass the experience test, a talented engine builder does not have to practice for 30 yrs. to become a master. WIth all due respect, it is not that kind of rocket science. If it was me, I would research past recent customers and see who actually seems to build better motors, if that is possible. FWIW, a clean shop means a lot to me.

In the trades that I have learned, I quickly discovered that long years of practice does not always = brilliance. You know that expression, "I've forgotten more that you know about (blank)"? I'll take the guy who hasn't forgotten everything, thank you very much.

[JK-81SC]

I'd use JW or Roger if you want to stay local, which has advantages. In reading Wayne's engine rebuild book, he talks about keeping things clean many times over and over. The cleaner engine shop would do it for me, since Roger sounds experienced enough for a good rebuild. Any references from customers available?

Buy Wayne's engine rebuild book before you start, it'll help you more than you can imagine.

[RickM]

Denis mentions two of the comments I would look for: Previous customer experience and a clean (organized) operation. We all know when everything (tools and parts) are in their place the likelihood of losing or forgetting them is lessened.

Also, who would be easiest to work with should you have a post rebuild issue?

Unfortunately you wont be able to detail your engine if you send it out.

[Andras Nagy]

Being an anal retentive Capricorn anyway (an oxymoron?), I always place great emphasis on cleanliness, especially when it comes to my Porsche (note that I specifically mentioned detailing my engine compartment while the engine was out). So I was leaning towards the clean shop.

But you never know; perhaps some wizard with engines could have done all the required and necessary work, without "finding" something else that was wrong, such as was implied by others on this Board about another Porsche shop's habits of escalating the "necessary" work.

Any ideas as to how to get references? If I ask the shop owners, they will only give me the good references. Is it worth asking here on the PelicanParts Forum about these two, with names?????

[Slider79SC]

Contact the local region of PCA that both of these guys are in and ask the President, safety chair, head instructor and the model representative (if they have one) and see who they recommend. They will always be able to give out lots of advice.

That’s how I approached it and I am very, very pleased with what I received.

This is just one option that is available.

[Decolliber]

You do not mention price. My guess would be that the older guy is cheaper than the race car preparer. I had a similar choice to make when having top end rebuilt: two shops in Chicago area, one a family business run by a 60 something patriarch, the other a firm with much younger techicians that caters to racers. The former was a lot cheaper, and since both are highly recommended by Chicago PCA, I went with him, and have not been disappointed.
Just because a shop looks messy (and the one I went to did), does not necessarily mean your engine is more likely to be contaminated. Consider the analogy with desks: many people have messy desks at work, but they may well know exactly where everthing is.
On the other hand, if mechanics are anything like college professors, the younger ones are probably much more technically proficient and knowledgeable. The older ones have experience, but learned the trade decades ago and may have forgotten a lot. My guess would be that in rebuilding an old Porsche engine, techniques have not changed much and the older guy's experience is more valuable to you.

[Hetmann]

You don't mention warranty either. I would think a reputable builder would stand behind his work for some period of time. When I got mine rebuilt, my mechanic provided a one-year 12,000 mile warranty.

[Halm]

I didn't see Stoddard's mentioned anywhere. They have a good reputation and are reasonably local to you.

[masraum]

They say "cleanliness is next to godliness". I think the kind of attention to detail that it takes to keep a shop spotless is the type of attention to detail that it takes to rebuild good motors.

[masraum]

I think both guys may build a good motor, but I believe the spotless shop is more likely to build a great motor.

Too you can get crappy work from almost anywhere.

[Jdub]

Be sure to find out who the subcontractors are for the various machining bits of work. That will tell you all you need to know.

John