Is replacing ball joints and tie rods a PITA?

[tdorsey835]

After 157,000 + miles, I have come to the conclusion that I need to replace my ball joints and tie rods. I have penciled together my order with Pelican and it includes a new castle nut, lock plate, etc. ( essentially all the replacement parts Pelican sells for this job) and the ball joint socket. (Do I need the 'fork' ball joint remover?) I am also planning to get the turbo tie rod kit with the tie rod puller and the 2 ended tie rod wrench. Question is- is this something any of you Pelican Heads have attempted and if so any words of advice or wisdom? Also, how hard is it to get it back together so the alignment is decent enough to drive to shop? Thanks.

[Superman]

Suspension stuff always has the potential to be a PITA. Those parts are in a hostile environment. And they're large, with corresponding torque specs.

On the other hand, if you plan to replace all those parts, then there are certain procedures that, if they give you any trouble, you can reach for the dremel, or the sledge. Yes, you should be able to get the alignment straight enough to limp to an alignment shop.

The "picklefork" tie rod and ball joint tools work well (in conjunction with the sledge). Those two tools are different sizes (ball joints are larger than tie rod ends.)

Be sure to put enough pressure against the ball joint socket so that it sits in there exactly square, and has no chance to pop off the nut. I used a jack to accomplish this, after I loaded the torsion bar by tightening the heck out of the adjusting screw. That nut can be stubborn. I guess I'd suggest you just avoid endangering the socket tool, and just CUT the nut off. Particularly if you're going to replace the nut and the ball joint. Why not? Many folks have buggered up their special socket trying to fight that castle nut off.

And you'll need new pins as well. The ones that hold the ball joints onto the struts.

[ZCAT3]

Good advice - do not worry about preserving anything in the tie rod area if you are replacing them with turbo tie rods. Just whack away with a sledge or us a pickle fork to break the tied rod from the strut (it it is really stubborn apply some heat with a torch). You do not need to spend $50 for the special Porsche tie rod removal tool as you could care less if you damage the tie rod ends.

You may also want to think about upgrading or at least revalving your shocks while you are in there. The cost of the alignment will be more than the cost of your parts, so getting the most out of it is worth doing. In order to have a decently drivable car when you are done you need to be sure to set the new tie rods to al close as possible length as the ones you remove.

On the ball joints, you do need the special socket to remove the nut (unless you cut it away) - but in any event you will need the socket to tighten the new nut. My mechanic lent me his special ball joint socket and a cheap harbor freight impact gun. This worked great in removing the nut. Like Superman I put a floor jack under the socket and jacked it up against the ball joint nut to get good pressure - otherwise you run the risk of destroying the socket, the nut, or both. Upon retorqueing I used this same process.

[marcesq]

On the castle nuts that retain the ball joints there is a real good thread about 2 or 3 months old. With all due respect to Super, botton line, don't waste your time get out the Dremel and make 2 cuts, then pop them with a cold chesel, they will come right out. I have been a part of 2 such r&rs and the "special socket" is a waste of time for removal.

The pickle fork is a must and a full size sledge hammer will bring the ball joints to the floor. Temper the hammer size on the tie rod ends.

Once you drop the tie rods ends you can use them as levers to unscrew them from the rack. A large pipe over the end will help break them loose. I didn't have any special tools when I did the turbo tie rods, waste of money IMHO.

Let us know if more help is needed. The job will render a few choice words, but all and all very satisfying.

Good luck.

[ZCAT3]

Originally posted by marcesq
The job will render a few choice words
Good luck.

That it will, grasshopper, that it will -

[Brad Dickmann]

I'm still pretty new to my '79 Targa. She has more experience than I do. I'm fairly mechanical though. When the time came to replace my ball joints and tie-rods, I did the precursor read-ups.

Once I actually got underneath and tried to loosen the castle nut of the ball joint, and since I was upgrading to the turbo-tie rods anyway, I reached for the Dremel. No problems getting stuff apart after that. Make sure you have the Bentley manual and Wayne's 101 project book. take your time, enjoy the work.

While I was at it, I replaced the 4 shocks, rebuilt the brake calipers, installed braided SS brake lines, bled the system, turned the rotors, replaced the pads, installed a steering column lift kit, lowered the front to the Euro spec., I eyeballed the alignment before taking it in for the 4 corner balancing, 4 wheel alignment and 4 new tires.

Retorquing the ball joint castle nuts was an issue for me so I asked the shop to inspect my work. They were happy to do so.

I agree with the others that while you're in there, do as much as you can afford.

Good Luck.

[Brad Dickmann]

By the way, I found that using a block of wood and a bottle jack under the A-arm helped support the A-arm so less force was required to remove the tierods. Additionally, even though this is only my second post ever, so take it for what it's worth, I do not recommend using the sledge hammer. Only use the force required. Start small and move up, you'll be surprised how little force is actually required.

[Jay Auskin]

While it wasn't a p-car, I did my first front end rebuild on a '89 t-bird w/ 150,000 city miles, and original front end parts (yes, the car was dangerous to drive, but it wasn't mine). Basically, prepare to beat the living cr@p out of the front end. The right tools, and like Brad said, proper support of components.

[fred cook]

The nut on the bottom of the ball joints can be a pain. If you can beg, borrow or steal an Ingersol-Rand 1/2" torque wrench (good for 600 ft/lbs of torque in reverse at 90 psi line pressure!), even 20+ year old nuts will come off ok. As mentioned above, be sure to hold the socket firmly in place while hitting it with the air. If all else fails, a big ass pipe wrench will do the job nicely. The tapered pin that holds the ball joint to the strut is best removed after pulling the strut and supporting the assembly on a bench vise. You probably won't be able to save/reuse the tapered pin as it usually takes considerable pounding to remove it from the strut. Once the tapered pin is removed, you can place a large open end wrench against the ball joint, support the other end (usually just hold it) and hammer on the wrench near the ball joint to seperate the bj from the strut. The new bj will go back in much easier. Be sure to orient the new tapered pin correctly in the hole, or it will not seat correctly!

Good Luck!

Fred Cook
'80 911SC coupe

[jyl]

Hey, I have a question about the wedge bolt that secures the ball joint pin. Is it supposed to be flush with the rear side of the strut?

When I replaced the balljoint, I used a new wedge bolt. I greased the "wedge" surface, oriented the wedge to match the cutout in the ball joint pin, and torqued to the spec. The result was that the rear end of the wedge bolt (facing the rear side of the strut) is not flush with the strut housing - it protrudes about 1/4" or so. I did also lightly tap the protruding end of the bolt in case it was hung up.

Does that sound OK? I could not recall if the original bolt end was flush or not.

[Wayne 962]

Newer wedge bolts do not appear to mate flush with the housing - I think they have been superceded to a slightly different one, but I'm not 100% sure.

Suspension stuff can be a pain. Expect the worst, and you will not be disappointed. Plan on cutting some stuff out with a dremmel. On my 911 for the 101 book, I had to cut the castle nut off, and drill out the tapered pin.

-Wayne

[Superman]

I agree with everyone, with one exception. Do not try to remove the castle nut using the special socket and an air wrench. That will ensure that your special tool gets boogered up. Removal tools should be little more than a Dremel, hammer, chisel and two pickleforks. Don't mess around. Also, Brad has the right ideal. While you're there, install new shocks, rebuild calipers, control arm bushings. Do it all and be done with it.

[KFC911]

The wedge bolts that I received from Pelican (two sets actually...I mangled the threads on the first set attempting to force it all the way in) exhibited this trait. In an earlier post, someone had posted pictures of the bolts that shows the difference in the length and slope of the tapered portion of the bolt. To me (and maybe I'm just too 'anal'), I did not like the idea of the bolts not being flush with the strut. I didn't like it from a 'safety issue' (and maybe I'm totally wrong), but I didn't like the idea of the bolt not being seated properly and potentially putting undue stress on the thinner threaded portion of the bolt (because it doesn't seat properly against the ball joint) instead of the thick portion. Although I almost always use Pelican (in this case, I just 'ate' the cost of 4 bolts), I ordered some new ones from the p-car dealer down the street from me, and those bolts (matched the tapered slope of the originals), and fit 'flush' against the strut as they were designed. Wayne, I know you've posted that these bolts are OEM sourced, but I still think you're getting (or have gotten) a bad batch.

[targa911man]

Note that the large round brass-colored fitting on the inside end of the tie rod, which the boot attaches to, serves as a locknut (at least on mine they did). It has notches on it that a special tool will fit, but I just whacked it a few times with a drift to loosen it. Yeah, it throws off the length measurement for matching the alignment, but on mine the tie rod was immovable until I loosened that fitting. Matching the measurement for the alignment is not that accurate anyway because of the angle in the tie rod. I did string alignment after installation which seems to have turned out perfect.

[KTL]

I too agree that the special socket is not intended for removal. I marred mine pretty good with the I-R bad mofo impact gun. Next time i'll do the hammer & chisel or dremel method.

I also don't think the tie rod wrench is necessary when upgrading to turbo tie rods. A big pair of channel locks or the hammer & chisel is more effective at removing the inner retaining ring on the old style tie rods.

A pickle fork will take care of both the ball joints and the rod ends from the steering knuckle. I'd get the smaller fork sold at the local parts store (like $10-$15 I think). Don't get the big one. I did and wished i'd had the smaller one. I really had to do a lot of prying with the pickle fork to get the strut out of the ball joint pin. With the smaller pickle, the wedge would have better pinched/separated the two.

You only need the rod puller tool if you plan to save the rod ends. In this case you're replacing them so it's no biggie if the fork ruins the rod end boots.

It's also easier to install the new rods with the rack out of the car (easier to remove them too).

This is a good time to relube the steering rack..................

Rack refresh article

[tdorsey835]

Ok here's the deal. I just got off the phone with my local P-car guru/mechanic. He quoted me $280 to replace both ball joints including parts and $150 labor to install turbo tie rods supplied by me ($120) Total job cost= about $560. Considering my parts only bill for the balljoints and tierod kit (including the specialty tools I'll only use once) is going to be $415 plus shipping, paying an extra $100 for installation seems well worth it. (Plus I dont have an impact wrench or an air compressor) And I'll know it's done right.

[Superman]

But...but.....but....listen to all the fun you'll be missing. Lying on your back under a greasy car trying to loosen rusted hardware that was put on decades ago with a pneumatic impact wrench.

[arcsine]

I am with Troy. Looking at the cost of parts/tools and what my free time (hah!) is worth, I am better off having John Walker do it.

[Wayne 962]

I'll look into the tapered bolt issue - I'll get one from Porsche and compare it to the ones we have in stock...

-Wayne

[efhughes3]

It is FUN! I actually bought all of the special tools, and spent the weekend doing these as well as the bump steer kit (all bought from Pelican) as well as the Elephant Racing a arm bushings. It took about 8 hours total spread over a couple of days. The second side went a lot faster. Definitely recommended to become more intimate with your 911. I'm glad I did it.

For what it's worth, I probably did less swearing per hour than on most projects.

PS- I used a Makita 1/2" electric impact with the special socket to get the ball joint nuts off.