28 Row Brass or Carrera Oil Cooler?

Kemo · 07-09-2003, 02:57 PM

which one is the best and why? is aftermarket better?

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

I had a brass row, replaced it with a Carrera one. Then added a second one. The brass row was fine with my stock 3.0, but not adequate enough for the 3.6 by itself, nor was the Carrera one....the addition of the MOCAL was well worth it.

IROC · IROC's Garage

For what application?

Mike

speeder · speeder's Garage

A 28 row and a carrera cooler w/ fan and all factory shrouding are about equal, maybe Steve W. can chime in since he has had both on the same car. I have had a carrera cooler w/o fan and (now) a 28 row on almost the same car, but rebuilt engine at same time as switching coolers so everything else is now new. 28 row is definitely better than the carrera w/o fan, especially in the city. The 28 row is more of a traditional heat sink, therefore is less dependant on air flow than a radiator, that is why the fan is important on the radiator. A fresh air or forced air duct is very helpful w/ the carrera (radiator), with or w/o fan. Especially w/o.

One big advantage to the carrera cooler is that it is widely available new for reasonable $$, (Pelican sell it), but the peripherals, (mounting brackets, fan, shrouding, etc.), gets expensive if not already on car. Hope that helps, cooling is key on our cars!

Kemo · 07-09-2003, 03:28 PM

Mike,

I was just trying to get a feel for each cooler; pro's and con's of each.
I have a 28 Row Brass on my SC. I live in Dallas. Deep down I was wondering if I should upgrade or not. I would hate to spend the money on a cooler I didn't need.

Chuck Moreland · 07-09-2003, 03:29 PM

The carrera is the more efficient cooler with airflow. So if you will have a fan or are mostly worried about cooling when moving, this is the solution.

The brass cooler is a more open design and when no airflow is present will do a better job than the carrera cooler. But if idling in traffic is really your mission, then I suggest using the carrera cooler with a fan. That will work better than the brass cooler in all circumstances.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

So Chuck what's the estimate for temp drop from your finned lines alone?

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Bill Boat used one of his own fender mount coolers w/ fan as the sole cooler in his 3.6 powered SC in Az. w/ AC, pretty impresssive!!

speeder · speeder's Garage

I'm going to chime in and say that although Elephant's finned lines are an improvement over stock lines, you need a sufficient cooler before anything else. That is where any smart $$ would be going first. Chuck sells the *improved* carrera cooler, "wide mouth" w/ better flow.

Chuck Moreland · 07-09-2003, 03:55 PM

Denis is right. An efficient oil cooler is central any external cooler system.

Finned oil lines are designed to connect and supplement that efficient cooler.

Todd, results vary. But to give some numbers, it is reasonable to expect 15-20 degrees reduction on a hot running engine just by swapping in the finned oil lines.

nestorjw · nestorjw's Garage

what do you need to do to convert to that widemouth cooler? on an SC

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

Oil only stays as cool as it's thermostat setting. Bigger coolers, more coolers, finned oil lines keep it at operating temp LONGER in times of high ambient heat, high revs, spirited driving, uphill, etc.....up to the heat exchange rate effeciency. Drive a car hard enough, long enough in high enough heat, anything will get hot....

A simple addition of more coolers will NOT drop NORMAL operating temps. Only a thermostat that opens at a lower oil temp will do that.

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Absolutly true Mike, but the bigger, more efficient the cooler the more abuse it will gracefully handle.

For street use my 3.6/3.8 is over cooled, temps are a tad over 80&deg C. But when pushed at a DE temps go to a balmy 100&deg C

For street use I should probably block off some of the cooler.

I should add that Chucks widemouth will be more than adequate up through a mildly modded 3.2 and is a bargain compared to B&B coolers.

Steve W · Steve W's Garage

Yes, Denis bought my 28 row cooler off of me when I switched to the Carrera cooler with fan. Hard to say about the differences between the two. At the same time, I swapped my front bumper to one from an 89 with the big scalloped opening in front of the cooler to increase airflow to it, and changed the fan switch to a lower 210? degree one from BMW. Generally, I would say at slow speeds, such as in traffic, the brass row cooler would release heat much easier than the Carrera cooler because it's more open. But I wanted the Carrera cooler's fan because my oil temp would to get up to 9:30/10:00 with the AC on in dead traffic and 100 degree heat. At speed though, I noticed a few degrees cooler temps with the Carrera cooler, but I can't say with certainty if it's because of the Carrera cooler's design, or because of the increased airflow from the scalloped bumper and the shroud which surrounds and blocks off air from passing around the cooler, two things I did not have at the time I used the 28 row cooler. Denis sounds better qualified to answer this question because it sounds like the factors in his changeover are more constant than mine. If I had to do it over, I might experiment by pulling out the right side turn signal and parking light, and making a shroud around the 28 row cooler, and adding a high cfm fan to it because I heard that the brass row cooler has more heat sinking surface area from which to emminate heat. Brass is expensive, and I think this may have been part of the cost cutting measure by Porsche in its changeover to the radiator type. When you look at a 28 row cooler all cleaned up, it almost looks like a handcrafted brass musical instrument.

Bob's Flat-Six · Bob's Flat-Six's Garage

Kemo, I have the brass 28 row cooler on my SC and it's been a good upgrade from the stock loop. If I ever need more cooling I'll do the Elephant lines, And gain new lines and better cooling all in one.

MBradbury · 07-09-2003, 06:03 PM

Hi,

How about this then, 28 row plus a fan!

Mark
'83 911 SC

Jack Olsen · 07-09-2003, 06:13 PM

Well, uh, the fan can't hurt. But the 28-row cooler isn't designed to benefit from a fan in the way the Carrera cooler is.

Every little bit helps, though. A fan certainly isn't going to make things any warmer.

Dantilla · 07-09-2003, 06:22 PM

I have Chuck's wide mouth cooler and finned lines with no fan. Stays plenty cool.

speeder · speeder's Garage

28 row + a fan? Sure, why not. It's more of a case of the radiator needing airflow, and not the 28 row. Actually, I discussed airflow on the 28 w/ Tyson S., (my technical advisor), and we agreed that even though it is more of a "heat sink" design, it would still benefit from a supply of cool air. That it would draw more heat away, or something like that, so he helped me notch my valance approx. 1"x 6" above the fog lights on the top of valance. Accomplishes the same thing as the notched '89 bumper that Steve refered to, (although Steve's set-up, and car for that matter are more elegant), my car is running like Fonzie now. COOOOOOL.

Silveresrty911S · Silveresrty911S's Garage

Denis

I've just about got all my parts for the 28 row install in a week or two, mine came stock with no external cooler and then the previous owner added the 3.2. Do you have a pic of the valance cutout for the extra air to the 28 row cooler, I was thinking of doing the same thing or notching the bumper like the 89 models.

Thanks Rick