Is it worth it?

sammygon1 · 08-05-2003, 08:20 AM

Sorry, another ebay post. "72 911s selling for $6750. According to the guy the tranny needs rebuilding $2K?, and the engine will have to be rebuilt, I don't mind doing the work myself $3-4K, and probably another $2-3K? for body work, paint and trim, etc. Does that sound about right. After that resto will the car ever be worth the high end of the blue book $17,500. If so there is room for a $1k profit if sold, not that I think I would sell it at that point. I just don't want to sink $9-10k in a $7k car and have it be worth $10k. Thanks for any input, Sam

Car is here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2426665209&category=10156

yelcab1 · 08-05-2003, 08:25 AM

7K for a roller? No way.

sfierle · 08-05-2003, 08:51 AM

Ever see the movie "The Money Pit"?

Groesbeck Hurricane · 08-05-2003, 08:57 AM

Maybe $2,500 or $3,000 max for a roller.

08-05-2003, 09:11 AM

As a hobby, don't ever count on making money on a fixer upper Porsche. Leave that to the pros. Without the resources and experience you will lose your a$$, your cat, and your cowboy hat. Not trying to pee on your Cherrios, it's just a fact of Porsche ownership.
Mark

sammygon1 · 08-05-2003, 09:38 AM

I'm not trying to mke money off a resto, I just don't want to be out of pocket 10k if I ever have to sell it. And nobody has seemed to actually answer my question. Would this car be worth the high end book value when restored?

targa80 · targa80's Garage

NO!

Hetmann · 08-05-2003, 09:58 AM

You will eventually be out 10k on any 911 you buy and a lot more on a 7k roller.

caliber60 · 08-05-2003, 09:58 AM

$17,500? You will never sell a '72 for that $$$. More like in mid 4 digits in exellent running condition. Be realistic and look at the current ads for price.

JackT · 08-05-2003, 10:05 AM

It will be hard to get the high end market value. To rebuild the engine for the figures you stated above, you will have to do the work yourself, and that is assuming you have access to the tools needed for free. Unless you are a Porsche mechanic with a reputable Porsche garage, the value of the rebuild is going to be a lot less than a rebuild from the reputable garage, which would probably charge $8,000. plus for the rebuild.

sammygon1 · 08-05-2003, 10:09 AM

Okay, okay I just thought that since it was an S model and I have seen them sell in the high teens that this might make a decent project car. But apparently I am alone in that thought. I'm just trying to find an early P-car to own and work on, and their are none in my area so maybe I'm getting desperate. By the way, thank you for bringing me back to reality.

Sonic dB · Sonic dB's Garage

Go for it. It sounds like a heck of a good deal...and a very fun project to work on.

JackT · 08-05-2003, 10:14 AM

Sam, you may want to look for a different model. S models are not as plentiful as some other models. I think you can probably find a T or an E or even go to the newer SC for less money than what you will end up putting into a S model.

MMARSH · MMARSH's Garage

I didn't even realize it was an 911S you were talking about.

A primo example is definitely worth more 17.5K But I really think it would depend on your level of work. I would think that if when completed the car was a high quality correct restoration you could get the money for it. On the other hand, I dont think that you will be able to build a truly high quality restoration for the amount of money you are talking about.

Personally, I think if it's a real S model, thats the one to build. you will get a bigger return on the other end when it's time to sell and the cost to rebuild the motor and do a quality paint job is the same whether it's an S or a T

Jack Olsen · 08-05-2003, 12:04 PM

Your estimates on the work needing to be done are very low, in my opinion. And they don't take into account other things (suspension, brakes) that are going to cost you even more.

The roller could be worth the asking price, depending on the condition of a number of its components. But it is very difficult to turn a profit (or even break even) on restoring an S roller properly.

As Mike points out, though, you'll lose even more money putting the same work into an E or a T.

sammygon1 · 08-05-2003, 12:15 PM

Again I'm not interested in turning a profit. Only when it comes time to sell (hopefully never) I would like to be able to get back a larger percentage of the amount of money I put in. Also according to the seller (taken with a grain of salt) brakes and suspension have been done. Sc calipers and torsion bars and turbo tie rods. I'm not really interested in doing a concours resto just a really nice driver.

Jack Olsen · 08-05-2003, 12:26 PM

If you want a really nice driver, then get a T or an E. Because they're collectible, the premium prices on S's are generally based on originality. Having SC brakes is going to hurt the car's value. Being repainted, with anything less than a 7-10K rebuild on the motor (by anyone less than a reputable shop), will keep your car from bringing in premium S dollars.

If you're looking to save money, buy a completed project. Even with hundreds of hours of your donated labor, you're going to typically lose half of what you invest by fixing a 911 up. That's not to say it's not worth doing, but if you're concerned about losing 10K on the project, then the joys of restoring an S might cost more than you're willing to pay.

In my opinion, if you're looking for a fast early car, it's cheaper to put a 3.0 or a 3.2 into a T (or better yet, find one that's already been done) than it is to properly rebuild an S's drivetrain -- where, again, the value of the car will drop if you go outside the historically-correct parameters.

08-05-2003, 12:28 PM

Probably the one you'll recoup most of your money on is one that has been done up already. Restoration will cost you twice as much as you estimate.

Jim Richards · 08-05-2003, 12:34 PM

Looking at the ebay ad, any work the seller claimed doing is suspect, either in fact or in workmanship. Assume you'll have to do everything to this car.

Disclaimer - The following $'s are my best guestimates. You may find better or worse prices. To make this car good (low $20k's resale), you'll need to dump maybe $7k into the body, $2k into the interior, $1.5k into the suspension, $8k into the drivetrain (you doing some of the work), and $0.5k for incidentals (tuneup, alignment, etc.). So you're looking at paying $6,750 for essentially a roller and another $19k to make it decent (not concours). So, best case you can expect to loose $5k on this. If you're going to farm all the drivetrain work out to p-car shops, then expect that you'll be out another couple of $k. If you go to a high end body shop, you may end up spending more like $10k for a real nice job. So, as you can see, this can easily end up costing you close to $30k. You'll end up loosing at least 20% of whatever you spend.

Only do this if you enjoy car restoration as a hobby and the money is a secondary issue.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by sammygon1
Only when it comes time to sell (hopefully never) I would like to be able to get back a larger percentage of the amount of money I put in.

Larger than what? I think a realistic scenario would be getting back about 25% of what you put into it. My car was/is in great shape, and I can' believe how much money I'm putting into it...and that's no restoring or modifying, just replacing stuff that is due. If I tried to sell right now (well, after I get it back from TRE later this week), I'd probably be upside down by almost $10K counting taxes, repairs, depreciation (I bought a low miles car), and a soft market.

The trick is not to sell the car...then you don't get depressed by all this.

Early cars are a bit different deal as they have some collectibility to them, but they also likely cost more to restore/maintain what with rust, parts becoming more scarce, etc.

It also depends on whether you do your own work or are a checkbook mechanic. If you are the latter, you will never get a good percentage of your money back out. Just drive it, fix it, drive it, enjoy. And try to ignore the trail of blood...besides, you could instead buy a new car and have a monthly payment, so at least that evens out some.