There's one STI left at the dealer in Hamilton NJ where I got my wrx. They told me sticker price is what they want for it so no gouging there. I think it was something around $32200 since it had a few options on it. It's silver and it has the same rims as the ugly gold ones but in silver. Nice car, I would think about trading mine up but the p-car needs my attention right now and the wife just bought a cooper s.

I posted this below...in the "What happened to the Porsche Mystique" thread, I feel it is worth repeating.......

Think about it this way. You are driving an icon. Not a cheaply clad, plasticy, car that is sold by the 10's of thousands each year-that will never be a classic. OK, so maybe the WRX can beat you 0-60(I personally have never raced one yet? curious to see how I would do). But how long before that WRX would burn up on a racetrack, how long before that car ultimately ends up in a junkyard? Your 911 will never. When you sit in your car, on those German leather seats and look at those kickass VDO gauges, air cooled fan in back. The WRX guy is sitting on cheap Japaneese cloth seats, sitting in a sea of cheap plastic all with the character of a doorknob. Porsche ownership is all about the total experience. I drove mine to work today, I get so many looks in my car, everyone in the left lane just moves out of the way on the expressway-out of respect, (they don't do that for my Trailblazer!).

It takes a rare breed to drive a 911. Not everyone can just jump in and drive one, like a Honda. When I am driving my 911 it a totally body experience, I am not talking on cell phones or listening to the radio. I am listening to the engine and anticipating my next shift, etc. It is really driving!

We are in the horsepower wars of the 2000's -- Exotics are no longer the only cars with sub 5 second 0-60 times, technology has finally allowed for "cheap horsepower" Remember in a 911 you are driving a legend. They will never make another 911SC or 930 etc. Would you rather have a 2003 WRX or a 1976 930 as your fun car? You won't get 1/100th the cool factor from the WRX even if it could beat the 930 in a straight line.

Amen, pass the gravy please.


Tom

.........sure, but an STi would sure make a great second car for those times where you do need to go fast and aren't in a nostalgic mood.

I double-Amen it! I have two for that reason!

But it doesn't mean that:

a) the WRX isn't fast or doesn't handle well; or
b) that all 911s are faster/handle better than a WRX

Especially if you have a kid in a carseat up front, your wife in the back, and a stroller in the trunk.

Good point Ed. But you forgot the surfboards on the roof

When I read what I just wrote it sounds like I like driving fast with a kid in the car. I would not do that. I just like the idea of having a fast car that has room for the whole family when you need the room.

Ed, it's OK - there would still be enough room for Gary C to ride on the hood!

Gary drives a WRX...

Have you pulled the trigger yet, Victor? ;)

Adam - no. Not *yet*. Can't afford a 3rd car right now. Damn I.T. Crisis.

Victor has outed himself. The 911 sits forlornly on the front lawn "For Sale" scrawled across the windscreen. (thought about "free to good home"?)

Never really did get over Morwell, did you Victor......or should we call you Vin????

Cameron, Winton is a handling track. Its got a very technical, fast, very sphincter puckering sweeper where the AWD is worth a quite bit. The slingshot out of the tight corners is where the rex is strong.

Now Stuart, you never even showed up at the WRX club Morwell Hillclimb. I believe you where competing in a "show and shine" that weekend. Or was it a spear-a-spud contest?

Now that I have driven a WRX, I fully understand why they are faster at standing start, uphill events (such as Morwell).

But I must admit, for those 39 seconds, I was truly free.

A couple of counterpoints. The STi comes with Recaro seats, in cloth. Most of us who are serious about going fast at the track dump our 'german leather' seats for a good set of Recaros or Sparcos. Those factory leather ones just don't cut it. While the Scooby interior may in fact be cheap, the inside of an older 911 is revolting to some people. Rear wiper control? Tack that on over there. Intermittent wipers? Hey, there's some empty space. Heat and air conditioning? Don't even get me started. It does take a different kind of person to drive a 911.
Scoobies (especially the STi) have all sorts of character and I think they have a place in history...much like the original Audi Quattro does (urQ). The word legendary comes to mind. Lots of 911s in junk yards...don't fool yourself. As you know, they're expensive to repair (relatively) and difficult to drive. Can you say totaled?

Also, the horsepower wars of the 2000s are no big whoop. There's not much out there that a mildly warmed over 930 can't show its tail-lights to.

Jeez what a thread! Hey guys, what about the Lancer EVO? :D Heck I'd take a WRX or anything else that fast and ugly any day to the track, I'd feel a helluva lot better about running it into a wall than my previous 911.

What actually are you defending here? I will admit the WRX is a neat little car and I am sure it has been well thought out when designed. Picture this scenario, you are at a cool cocktail party, jazz playing, a few Martinis into the night you and a group of guys go outside for a cigar. You happened to drive your 911. "wow, now that is cool!" will probably be one of this first comments you hear. "Can I see the engine? It's in back? Wow!, what do you mean it does not have a radiator?" A 911 is a true legend in the automotive world, it ranks up with Ferrari, Lotus, Lamborghini and pre 1985 Jaguar. The Rex again is cool and fast-maybe even has cool cloth seats. but it has no heritage, it has no soul. I think Subaru started off making toasters or clock radios or something. Subaru will probably sell more cars in a year than Porsche may have sold in ten. It is hard to compare the two. Again, it is the Experience of ownership, not just plopping in the car and stomping on the gas. The WRX will probably be a car that is built for years to come and improved on etc, they will sell tons of them. I am not sure if you had WRX serial number 0001 you would be able to command the money the early 911's and 356's could.

As far as the horsepower wars...hmmmmm
2004 Neon RT O-60 5.6
2003 Altima 3.5 0-60 5.9
Honda Accord Coupe 0-60 5.9
These are not slow cars by any sense. These are cars you would have laughed at next to you at a light 5 years ago. Now you may give it a second thought before you drop the silk scarf. So what does this leave many of us 911 owners with--Heritage, uniqueness, 15 quarts of oil, all the really cool stuff that makes a 911 a 911.

I was actually responding to the things you wrote about -- junkyards, seats, interior design, HP wars. I always thought that the racing heritage made the 911 legendary. Otherwise it wouldn't be much more than a fast, well built corvair with an enthusiastic following. ;)

But I do agree with you about people wanting to check it out - asking questions, etc. I wonder if the same will be said about an STi in 15 years? Doubtful...it'll probably be something obscure that only enthusiasts know about and appreciate. Turbo AWD rocketship with world class handling and a boxer motor. Hey...what's a boxer motor? What's that funny lookin hood scoop do? Sounds kinda cool and sort of unique if you ask me.

I really can't picture someone standing next to me at a party in 20 years saying "Damn, that one of them Subarus? Heard they made toasters?" I am not sure how rare a front engine four wheel drive vehicle really will be, especially with how many they produce. I can't even think of any 20+ year old Subarus that I have even heard of let alone seen in person. I still don't feel that Subaru belongs in the company of some of the great European classics of our time. At least the WRX has functional hood scoops, all prior Subarus implemented vestigal scoops, merley more plastic to crack with no purpose. Anyway who knows for sure, let us see what happens over time! Great thread by the way! OH and again, I think the WRX is an awesome car! Subaru really hit the mark when the put this together. I would even consider one as daily driver! May be fun to have all that power available all the time instead of just weekend sunny days!

"Think about it this way. You are driving an icon. Not a cheaply clad, plasticy, car that is sold by the 10's of thousands each year-that will never be a classic. OK, so maybe the WRX can beat you 0-60(I personally have never raced one yet? curious to see how I would do). But how long before that WRX would burn up on a racetrack, how long before that car ultimately ends up in a junkyard? Your 911 will never. When you sit in your car, on those German leather seats and look at those kickass VDO gauges, air cooled fan in back. The WRX guy is sitting on cheap Japaneese cloth seats, sitting in a sea of cheap plastic all with the character of a doorknob. Porsche ownership is all about the total experience. I drove mine to work today, I get so many looks in my car, everyone in the left lane just moves out of the way on the expressway-out of respect, (they don't do that for my Trailblazer!).

It takes a rare breed to drive a 911. Not everyone can just jump in and drive one, like a Honda. When I am driving my 911 it a totally body experience, I am not talking on cell phones or listening to the radio. I am listening to the engine and anticipating my next shift, etc. It is really driving! "

__________________________________________________ __________

Oh please. Have you had a look at the interior of a 996 or a Boxster. And what is the price multiple of those cars relative to a Subaru?

Its about "fitness for pupose". If impressing the great unwashed at parties and traffic lights is your purpose, then your Porsche wins, hands down.

The 2.0T WRX has been on the road, rally circuit and more recently the racetrack since 1994. In any sort of "bang for buck" measure, they are the best value HP car on the planet.

They are not 911s. They are a competely different beastie. But "I drove mine to work today, I get so many looks in my car, everyone in the left lane just moves out of the way on the expressway-out of respect" -please, get your hand off it.

stuart 87 carrera

http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/ta...miles/werd.gif

My (real) concern with one of these blown fwd-to-awd econoboxes is longevity. Despite its go-fast appeal and ability, cornering or what have you, will it have the same temperment after 1 or 200,000 miles, which is fairly much the going lifespan of a well taken care of 911, 2.7s included if rebuilt well.

The flipside of this is, of course, modifying your 911 to stay up with these new cars. That cuts the 911's lifespan quite a bit, but we all know that.

I can't get worked up - and I think no one on this board should get worked up - about high-horsepower disposability. Their ubiquity is pronounced in comparison of older sports cars. The 350-Z takes a cue from the 240-Z, which is an outstanding sports car. The new Mazda RX calls long distance to its ancestral RX-7 of the late-70s to early 90s. Comparisons like that take whatever uniqueness there is out of an object when it's being compared to something else. This wouldn't be the case if it had any uniqueness to begin with.

Or here's another thought: when was the last time a Porsche was compared to another Porsche?

Just go over to the 944/928 board and tell them how vastly superior our 911's are.

Whichever post it was about heritage - lets remember that at the moment Porsche racing is mostly heritage and not much current form (although the GT3 is very very cool - but they race against each other).

Subaru has been moderately or very successful with the Impreza in the WRC for a decade. WRC just doesn't get much coverage in the US - it is HUGE in Europe and Asia/Pacific.

http://www.swrt.com/

My (real) concern with one of these blown fwd-to-awd econoboxes is longevity. Despite its go-fast appeal and ability, cornering or what have you, will it have the same temperment after 1 or 200,000 miles, which is fairly much the going lifespan of a well taken care of 911, 2.7s included if rebuilt well.

Its ok - not great, not bad. There are plenty of 10 year old WRXs here which have been thrashed, have +/- 100k miles and still go perfectly well.

If you maintained one like people maintain a 911, it would last a long time...

Wait I do remember an older Subaru, I am not sure it is 20 years old but close. THE JUSTY!!! Anyone remember that speed demon. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1062039529.gif

I am quaking in my boots thinking about running into one of those at a stoplight at 3:00 am. I think it was most noteworthy as being one of the most economical cars of it's time. Pretty cool!

And again, the WRX is a pretty sweet car. Whole different deal than the old 911.

Heres an older one.

Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. (FHI)- Subaru- traces its beginnings to Nakajima Aircraft Co., Ltd., founded in 1917.

http://www.geocities.com/saiwm/tzero307.jpg

Ah, the classic is the Subaru Brat; reaching back 26 years.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1062041420.jpg

The sporty Brat was sold from 1977 to 1987.

With their high production numbers coupled, with the Subaru quality build, the number of these cars now on the road vastly out number similar year Porsche 911s. . . .and the classic Brat styling -- WOW!

:cool: TIC

I might be looking too far into this but something about that guy's post when he mentions about the people asking him about his car at a party and what not.
That can be seen as offensive to us 911 owners. I in now way have a 911 because I want attention. I prefer otherwise. I would rather be the guy everyone underestimates and then blow by them on the track. I did not get a 911 to be noticed, I got one to have a car I have always dreamed about. It's not the 993 turbo I always wanted, but I'm still waiting on that winning lottery ticket. I make do with what I have and try to have fun above all else. The funny thing is that my wrx gets a lot of attention. It's tolerable, but mostly from young couples who want something sporty that they can fit the family in when they have to.
I also get a lot of annoying comments when people see my tires. "Hey you need new tires, they're bald!" is a common one, and the fact that even mechanics have said this to me makes me cringe. Aren't they suppost to know about cars? I feel like saying "No, moron they are suppost to be that way!" but no I just don't feel like getting into it, so I say "I know" and skip educating these dumb asses. I guess r compounds aren't that common???

Hey please take no offense, You may have purchased your 911 to race. I am love with it's history and heritage I have a million books on Porsche, the family, the history etc. I actually do most of my own work on my 911 as well. I am not some f*ing tea toting country club bastard either, I actually am not thrilled with anything post 1989 that Porsche has built (don't get me wrong I would take a gt3 in a second!) . The 911 is my dream car as well. My points are that if you look at the roots and the lineage it is on a differant planet than many, many other OEM's. So in a way it offends me a little bit that some of these other cars are compared to Porsche. You are only looking at performance not the entire picture. Oh and yes I know what an R compound tire is but how do you know when it is worn out? If is already bald??, with a name like WRX Dan I am not surprised you would have comment on this thread!

I agree too. As for R compounds, they do have some tread so you can see the indicators wear in. It's just that there are some tread patterns with slick sections.

To write off Subie as a company with toaster heritage is a tad lame. Shall we mention some of Porsche's history?

I've seen Subies with hundreds of thousands of miles. And if owners were as anal with them (and dumped as much money into them) as p-car owners, there would likely be a ton still on the road. Sure, they have cheaper materials and don't have the snob appeal of a Porsche. But as far as what's going on NOW? Who is more committed to motorsports competition right now...Subie or Porsche?

If only they could make the STi just a tad less ugly, and create a 3-door hatchback version...

In the end they are very different cars that have some crossover appeal in certain areas, no relation in others.

Actually, if you read between the lines porsche is still commited, but is holding back for the right time to unleash. I think the the next year or two we might be very surprised. As far as this discussion goes, i believe the original intent was for someone to figure out how his car holds against the new m3 and whether he underestamated his car or not. The WRX has nothing to do with it, and i'm appauled at how many people were offended that someone would compare a wrx to a 14-38 year old porsche. Who cares, you don't see Mechanical Engineer under their title do you? Opinions are like *********s, everyone has one. Personally i know why i purchased my porsche and won't drive something else. Could it be that i've driven both and some others for the comparison, or maybe because i'm a second year ME?

If opinions are like *********s, what are over-inflated egos like? :cool:

Astroids ?

:cool:

They are like hemroids cause they come out of nowhere and are hard to fix :D