Was he just being nice? (3.6 SC vs. M3)
 

Early Saturday morning I was getting on the freeway. One of those 2 lane onramps. I was just starting to pick up speed (40 or 50 MPH) when a new BMW M3 driven by a friend pulls up along side me. He smiled then shot forward. I punched it and I was amazed how quickly I caught up with him. As I passed he gave me a thumbs up. We ended our little sprint as quickly as it began.

Maybe he was being easy on his car because it is fairly new (about a year old). Or is it possible that my little SC is as quick as his M3?

It's as quick.....Beemer drivers have egos too.....

Hmmm... well I'd think you're SC with a 3.6 should be a fair match for most cars.

-MAS

SC w/ 3.6? Think power-to-weight ratio here. I think you may have taken him. The stories of you 70s and 80s stocker 911's eating 00 M3s and Ferrari Enzos and such I don't buy, but this one is at least in the realm of possibility...

You said the guy was a friend, why not ask? Or even better, re-match (in a safe and controlled environment so pie-in-the-face Nader and his local supporters don't flame me to DEATH on the subject of street racing :rolleyes: )

OK... and how much HP would a modded 3.6 (like this one) have in a car that's considerably lighter than an M3?

Maybe, I'm not reading this right, but the SC in question has a modded 3.6 in it, right?

-MAS

Sure, it is power to weight, and I'm not saying that the SC w/ 3.6 isn't faster than the fairly heavy M3. It probably is.

But the M3 nevertheless is quite powerful and consistently puts up pretty impressive acceleration numbers (4.8, low 13s). I think if the M3 driver was really trying, the 3.6 driver wouldn't have been surprised at how quickly the 911 caught up with and passed the M3. As I read the post, the 911 fairly well ate the M3 alive, so much that it surprised the 911 driver, and if that is the case, I don't think the M3 driver was really trying. I think they would be close enough such that neither driver would be really surprised by the other car in an acceleration contest.

Plus....most M3 drivers are pansies....:p

Well, that too! ;)

heh-heh, (3.6 SC vs. M3) Was he just being a pansy? ;)

I'll just say, that I'm surprised by how many (911 drivers included) don't even down-shift when they want to GO.

M3=sedan=pansy (generally speak, of course) :rolleyes:

I don't know Moses, I am running a 3.8 that has to be putting out at least 305 to 310 HP and a fresh G50. I have had M3's and WRX's smoke me without issue. Remeber fellas, past 100Mph and weight doesn't matter....

"I have had M3's and WRX's smoke me without issue."

Dude, you need a tune up if the WRXs are smoking you.

Maybe I've exaggerated a bit. (I've done that before!) :)

I was surprized that I would even stay with him. If the fun started at 50 MPH, I was passing him at 90 MPH. I wasn't blowng his doors off at all, just pulling past him.

My 3.6 is chipped. Should be close to 300 HP now. I yanked the A/C, bumpers and bumper shocks. I figure I'm around 2,500 pounds (could be wrong.)

His M3 convertable weighs 3,780 pounds and has 333 HP. So I'm a little ahead on the power/weight ratio, but the M3 should go 0-60 in 5.4 which I doubt I could do.

I'm guessing that my friend saw a 20 year old 911 pulling hard and decided not to push it. Why would he? There is no possible up-side to running with a 20 year old car. If you lose, you might rethink all that money you spent ;)

Huh?

I don't straight-line race, but Thom Fitzpatrick (in his fairly heavy 77 cab) has a 964 3.6, and runs 0-60's in 4.3 seconds. How's an M3 or WRX supposed to keep up with that?

I have taken a well prepped Mustang in a dash with my baby, and then punished him down the autobahn well past 130 mph...so a 3.6 can do quite a bit in an ol' 911

The biggest penalty we have in the 3.6 transplants is that we can't shift from first into second too fast with a 915 like a drag racer. Imagine the embarassement of grenading your tranny in one of those little head to head quarrels....

Other that that I am sure I can take an M3 at any time. My 3.6 comes in at 2465 pounds with something in the 270 to 280 HP range and some pretty short gearing with the 7/31.

At speeds above 140 my car gets awfully light and nervous in the front. I can see that an M3 or any heavier car designed for high top speeds handles better.

K9, I would try and embrarras the hell out of your opponent below 130 and then just ease off. That's even more humiliation for him and a hell of a lot safer for you. These old cars were never designed for anything above 130mph.

There are actually warnings in the factory WS manual about not exceeding certain speeds with a disfunctional retractable wing...

Ingo

Absolutely. I never jump on it hard till I'm in second at 3000 RPM. Hitting the gas in first is utterly senseless, since I engage the rev limiter just about the same time my foot hits the floor. (Maybe I need a taller first or bigger tires.)

1. Past 145 and my car feels really unstable. I have a fresh but stock suspension (other than SAW springplates / Smart racing bumpsteer kit) with new Bilsteins, sports/HD's

2. I am not sure if the cars that have blown past me were were stock or had some HP mods. There are WRX's at nearly 400 HP @18 PSI of boost

3. I can go 0-60 in the low 4's too, but I have to really abuse the car and despite popular opinions the G50 isn't that much smoother to shift than a 915 IMHO, I have both. I do think the G50 downshifts much better.

Well my brother-in law's Imprezza WRX (not STI) is about even with my '88 Carrera up to 70, at which point the Carrera starts slowly pulling away. I know, those WRXs can do 0-60 in under 6 or something. But you have to be a magazine tester who doesn't care about the clutch if you want to get those times. The everyday driver is at about 7, as I am in my Carrera with an easy launch. Maybe the WRXs you raced were not stock?

"Maybe the WRXs you raced were not stock?"

I had a WRX pull up to me at 60mph on the freeway, driver gave me a big grin and got on it. I down shifted to third, caught him very quickly and blew his socks off through 4th. Continued to do so into fifth. Wish I could have seen his face in my mirror :) Had to make my exit but there was no way he'd have caught me inside my 140 top end. That is with a lowly 3.0 with a short gear box and SSIs. Have yet to see a WRX on the track, keep up. But I haven't seen a 400 HP WRX either ;)

WRX is a nice car but just barely in the same ball game as a decent, 25 year old 911 IMO. Haven't seen any running with the M3s either, which I make a point to avoid!

rdane: sent you a PM...

M3s don't worry me that much . . . ;)

"WRX is a nice car but just barely in the same ball game as a decent, 25 year old 911 IMO. "

As a former frequent tracker of MY98 WRX, and currently having the heavier and slower MY02 WRX in the family, all I can think is that you guys must get slow Rexs or fast old Porsches in the States.

Running often against DDR's well piloted 964 C4, we found the two cars to be very similar in their performance envelope, including on the track, standing quarter (13.6) and various motorkhana events. The 911 would have a top speed advantage-was clocked at 217kmh (135) in a bog standard dard WRX on Ford's proving bowl in an event. I think it had a whisker more in it.

Its taken me two years, a lot of suspension sorting, trick tyres and many laps to get my 87 Carrera to anywhere near my WRX lap times.

Dont advise you take one on in the rain.

stuart 87 carrera

rdane you must have the badest 79 coupe on the planet because if you smoked a WRX it's because he let you..period.
These little turbo ricers are bad a$$ cars that can be made very fast for cheaper than a 911.

I have an MPEG of my 3.8 just sitting and idling through dual flowmasters, and you can tell that it means business. I can't post the MPEG because I don't have any server space but I can email it to you if you can handle a 5.24 MB email.

I don't know about the new m3's but a buddy of mine has a 2000 and I can abuse him with my 3.6 sc at will.

"if you smoked a WRX it's because he let you..period."

ROTFLMAO

Pretty much my reaction when the guy goosed it on the freeway too....but I was driving so I had to do the mental version of ROTFLMAO ;) I am sure when the WRX blew by me as I exited the freeway he was thinking he had a bad ass WRX too.

Maybe his turbo hadn't kicked in, maybe the girlfriend/wife added too much weight, maybe it was a mistake trying to play tag with well sorted out 25 year old, 3.0 911 @ 60 mph.

It all could have been a dream, even the Vette tagging along behind @ 130 could have been a dream. Happens as you get older, trying to figire out which one is reality and which one is fantasy.

Maybe @ 100+ the Vette and WRX felt a little iffy or their radar detectors sucked, don't know. The Targa running with the Vette didn't seem to have the same problem. May be it is the fact that Porsche drivers just peddle faster.......you think?

Thanks for the laugh this morning, either way.

I am still thinking a tune up is in order if you are getting spanked by M3s and a lowly 250 hp WRX. Flowmasters do sound good though.

I just talked to my friend with the M3 this morning. He told me he was pushing as hard as he could.

When I shifted from second to third, he surged ahead by three car lengths and he thought he would spank me. My third gear ate him up.

He was so impressed with the little SC he wants to drive it.

Dude I am not trying to pi$$ on your daydream but I have a high HP N/A 911 that weighs around 2600 lbs. that can destroy a stock 3.0 (in a straight line) So I know that there is no way a stock 3.0 SC can even touch a WRX Sti unless the driver really sucked or he was trying to make you feel good (which I doubt).

Sorry my friend EARTH is down here, please join us!!

I have also recently been SPANKED by a new Mustang Cobra. I think this was the worst beating I had taken in an unofficial street race. 0-60 he left me, 0-100 he embarrassed me. These cars are 4.6L - 390 HP rockets, they are just about as fast as a new ZO6.

Embs, where did I say it was a 400 HP STI WRX? Give me a break. I would tend to believe it was a standard WRX. BTW my SC was 2225# a couple of weeks ago and it aint stock.

I see the problem, first you need a diet and then you need a tune up :)

All is not lost, thanks Moses! I was beginning to think that my 12K going into a 3.6 was a waste of money :)

Most m3's are in the operating weight range of about 3600lbs. What makes them give such impressive accel #'s are the fact that there torque curves are scary flat. Plus having a 9k redline sort of helps as well. wrx's can put out very high power #'s with little work done to them. It wouldn't surprise me if a random wrx found on the street is at least chipped much less more radicals. Having said that, a 300hp 3.6 in a 2500lb car should be one sick pull when you get on it.

I have an 02 wrx and it's pretty fast. Especially with the r compounds on it. BUT after I dropped the 3.0 in my 77 coupe I don't think the rex can catch it. I have yet to see what my g-tech says for numbers as the car is still waiting on me to put the new oil cooler in, but it sure feels quicker than my rex ever did. I'll let you guys know what happens when I'm back on the road. So far my best time with the rex is a 14.2 on normal tires. I guess I have to run again with the R compounds and see what comes up.

Moses, you beat him fair and square. Don't act so surprised. You've got nearly 300 hp in a 2500-lb car. 333 hp in a 3400-lb car is NOT going to beat you.

Embs, not trying to rain on your parade, but it sounds like your car is not running like it should.

The rest of you, quit deifying the WRX. Perhaps the STi is a special car, but golly, the Subaru WRX, according to my understanding has about 225 hp (on boost). That's about ten percent more ponies than I probably have. How much do they weigh? If they are in the 300-lb neighborhood, I'd expect a pretty fair fight between them and my car in terms of acceleration. And like I said in another thread, a WRX (admittedly, probably not a special STi one) embarrassed itself at a recent Bremerton autocross. Its suspension was unsuitably soft. Fairly slow times. You could tell by watching that the vehicle was not capable of quick turns.

I'm not in denial. These new cars are fast, and some of them will blister my butt good. But let's be real. A plain WRX is about a match for a healthy SC. A plain Mustang is lunch. A built Mustang is trouble. Some of those Hondas out there are vicious, don't even try.

A light 911 with 3.6 or 3.8 is going to beat everything except exotics and built cars. Stock Subarus should bow their heads as you pass. Don't know much about M3s, so no comment except what's in the first paragraph.

Say what you want bro, most punks don't keep my attention this long. There are two ways to generate HP and go fast: big displacement or forced induction OR both. The more air you pump via NA or forced the more HP you generate. IF you can get that HP to the ground you go fast.

Embs--if your car does low 4's 0-60 you should have beaten or at least tied with the Cobra or Z06 for that matter just based on C/D and R/T testing. And 60 to 100 should not have been an embarrassment--what gives? Your hp/lb should be right in the same range as these guys--no?

Actually it's on how much cfm your motor is sucking in which in proportion will dump more fuel for it. Therefore High revs also generate more hp. And if you wanna get technical, temp and air density also make a big difference.

This is a good point. Its so easy to turn the boost up on these cars that there's a high probability that the one you meet will be faster than stock. When you see a Mustang/Camaro/other Porsche on the street, you usually know what you're in for. With a WRX, there's no way of knowing.

Hey my SC doesn't weigh 2600#s, yours does. Name calling now? What, road rage next? If I had my ass whipped on by the local Subaru crowd I would do the honorable thing.

I'd sell you my 3.6 ;)

Well John I guess that I just suck, my car must be an overweight POS, I can't drive, I can't shift, I must lie horribly, OR could it be that I have faced reality (unlike some other BBS members) and realized that their are faster cars than 911's but none that I like better.

Just remember - HP wins headlines, Torque wins races............

There are faster cars yes, but what they're trying to get through to you is there must be something wrong. You've got a good ideal PW ratio and should be faster, that's all. The cobra R i can vouch for and say is very fast, because my friend was stupid enough to race one in his NA 944 and that was the biggest emabarrisment he'd ever gotten aside from my old 951. A 3.8 you said right, well that should be good for like 280hp on the very low side of the spectrum. And with 2600 lbs, you may not have the PW ratio of Moses, but you should have stayed on the bumper of the cobra. The cobra R is a different story.