Was he just being nice? (3.6 SC vs. M3) - Page 5

wrx paul · 08-26-2003, 08:01 PM

There's one STI left at the dealer in Hamilton NJ where I got my wrx. They told me sticker price is what they want for it so no gouging there. I think it was something around $32200 since it had a few options on it. It's silver and it has the same rims as the ugly gold ones but in silver. Nice car, I would think about trading mine up but the p-car needs my attention right now and the wife just bought a cooper s.

1982911sc · 08:30 PM

I posted this below...in the "What happened to the Porsche Mystique" thread, I feel it is worth repeating.......

Think about it this way. You are driving an icon. Not a cheaply clad, plasticy, car that is sold by the 10's of thousands each year-that will never be a classic. OK, so maybe the WRX can beat you 0-60(I personally have never raced one yet? curious to see how I would do). But how long before that WRX would burn up on a racetrack, how long before that car ultimately ends up in a junkyard? Your 911 will never. When you sit in your car, on those German leather seats and look at those kickass VDO gauges, air cooled fan in back. The WRX guy is sitting on cheap Japaneese cloth seats, sitting in a sea of cheap plastic all with the character of a doorknob. Porsche ownership is all about the total experience. I drove mine to work today, I get so many looks in my car, everyone in the left lane just moves out of the way on the expressway-out of respect, (they don't do that for my Trailblazer!).

It takes a rare breed to drive a 911. Not everyone can just jump in and drive one, like a Honda. When I am driving my 911 it a totally body experience, I am not talking on cell phones or listening to the radio. I am listening to the engine and anticipating my next shift, etc. It is really driving!

We are in the horsepower wars of the 2000's -- Exotics are no longer the only cars with sub 5 second 0-60 times, technology has finally allowed for "cheap horsepower" Remember in a 911 you are driving a legend. They will never make another 911SC or 930 etc. Would you rather have a 2003 WRX or a 1976 930 as your fun car? You won't get 1/100th the cool factor from the WRX even if it could beat the 930 in a straight line.

sithot · 08-26-2003, 08:37 PM

Amen, pass the gravy please.

Tom

Victor · 08-26-2003, 09:01 PM

.........sure, but an STi would sure make a great second car for those times where you do need to go fast and aren't in a nostalgic mood.

CamB · CamB's Garage

Quote:

Amen, pass the gravy please.

I double-Amen it! I have two for that reason!

But it doesn't mean that:

a) the WRX isn't fast or doesn't handle well; or
b) that all 911s are faster/handle better than a WRX

EdT82SC · 08-26-2003, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Victor
.........sure, but an STi would sure make a great second car for those times where you do need to go fast and aren't in a nostalgic mood.

Especially if you have a kid in a carseat up front, your wife in the back, and a stroller in the trunk.

Victor · 08-26-2003, 09:49 PM

Good point Ed. But you forgot the surfboards on the roof

EdT82SC · 08-26-2003, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EdT82SC
Especially if you have a kid in a carseat up front, your wife in the back, and a stroller in the trunk.

When I read what I just wrote it sounds like I like driving fast with a kid in the car. I would not do that. I just like the idea of having a fast car that has room for the whole family when you need the room.

Victor · 08-26-2003, 09:57 PM

Ed, it's OK - there would still be enough room for Gary C to ride on the hood!

dd74 · 08-26-2003, 10:00 PM

Gary drives a WRX...

Adam · Adam's Garage

Quote:

.........sure, but an STi would sure make a great second car for those times where you do need to go fast and aren't in a nostalgic mood.

Have you pulled the trigger yet, Victor?

Victor · 08-26-2003, 10:25 PM

Adam - no. Not *yet*. Can't afford a 3rd car right now. Damn I.T. Crisis.

stuartj · 11:13 PM

Victor has outed himself. The 911 sits forlornly on the front lawn "For Sale" scrawled across the windscreen. (thought about "free to good home"?)

Never really did get over Morwell, did you Victor......or should we call you Vin????

Cameron, Winton is a handling track. Its got a very technical, fast, very sphincter puckering sweeper where the AWD is worth a quite bit. The slingshot out of the tight corners is where the rex is strong.

Victor · 08-26-2003, 11:36 PM

Now Stuart, you never even showed up at the WRX club Morwell Hillclimb. I believe you where competing in a "show and shine" that weekend. Or was it a spear-a-spud contest?

Now that I have driven a WRX, I fully understand why they are faster at standing start, uphill events (such as Morwell).

But I must admit, for those 39 seconds, I was truly free.

arrivederci · 08-27-2003, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1982911sc

Think about it this way. You are driving an icon. Not a cheaply clad, plasticy, car that is sold by the 10's of thousands each year-that will never be a classic. OK, so maybe the WRX can beat you 0-60(I personally have never raced one yet? curious to see how I would do). But how long before that WRX would burn up on a racetrack, how long before that car ultimately ends up in a junkyard? Your 911 will never. When you sit in your car, on those German leather seats and look at those kickass VDO gauges, air cooled fan in back. The WRX guy is sitting on cheap Japaneese cloth seats, sitting in a sea of cheap plastic all with the character of a doorknob. Porsche ownership is all about the total experience. I drove mine to work today, I get so many looks in my car, everyone in the left lane just moves out of the way on the expressway-out of respect, (they don't do that for my Trailblazer!).

It takes a rare breed to drive a 911. Not everyone can just jump in and drive one, like a Honda. When I am driving my 911 it a totally body experience, I am not talking on cell phones or listening to the radio. I am listening to the engine and anticipating my next shift, etc. It is really driving!

We are in the horsepower wars of the 2000's -- Exotics are no longer the only cars with sub 5 second 0-60 times, technology has finally allowed for "cheap horsepower" Remember in a 911 you are driving a legend. They will never make another 911SC or 930 etc. Would you rather have a 2003 WRX or a 1976 930 as your fun car? You won't get 1/100th the cool factor from the WRX even if it could beat the 930 in a straight line.

A couple of counterpoints. The STi comes with Recaro seats, in cloth. Most of us who are serious about going fast at the track dump our 'german leather' seats for a good set of Recaros or Sparcos. Those factory leather ones just don't cut it. While the Scooby interior may in fact be cheap, the inside of an older 911 is revolting to some people. Rear wiper control? Tack that on over there. Intermittent wipers? Hey, there's some empty space. Heat and air conditioning? Don't even get me started. It does take a different kind of person to drive a 911.
Scoobies (especially the STi) have all sorts of character and I think they have a place in history...much like the original Audi Quattro does (urQ). The word legendary comes to mind. Lots of 911s in junk yards...don't fool yourself. As you know, they're expensive to repair (relatively) and difficult to drive. Can you say totaled?

Also, the horsepower wars of the 2000s are no big whoop. There's not much out there that a mildly warmed over 930 can't show its tail-lights to.

NYSCAR · 08-27-2003, 06:08 AM

Jeez what a thread! Hey guys, what about the Lancer EVO?

Heck I'd take a WRX or anything else that fast and ugly any day to the track, I'd feel a helluva lot better about running it into a wall than my previous 911.

1982911sc · 08-27-2003, 10:07 AM

Quote:

A couple of counterpoints. The STi comes with Recaro seats, in cloth. Most of us who are serious about going fast at the track dump our 'german leather' seats for a good set of Recaros or Sparcos. Those factory leather ones just don't cut it. While the Scooby interior may in fact be cheap, the inside of an older 911 is revolting to some people. Rear wiper control? Tack that on over there. Intermittent wipers? Hey, there's some empty space. Heat and air conditioning? Don't even get me started. It does take a different kind of person to drive a 911.

What actually are you defending here? I will admit the WRX is a neat little car and I am sure it has been well thought out when designed. Picture this scenario, you are at a cool cocktail party, jazz playing, a few Martinis into the night you and a group of guys go outside for a cigar. You happened to drive your 911. "wow, now that is cool!" will probably be one of this first comments you hear. "Can I see the engine? It's in back? Wow!, what do you mean it does not have a radiator?" A 911 is a true legend in the automotive world, it ranks up with Ferrari, Lotus, Lamborghini and pre 1985 Jaguar. The Rex again is cool and fast-maybe even has cool cloth seats. but it has no heritage, it has no soul. I think Subaru started off making toasters or clock radios or something. Subaru will probably sell more cars in a year than Porsche may have sold in ten. It is hard to compare the two. Again, it is the Experience of ownership, not just plopping in the car and stomping on the gas. The WRX will probably be a car that is built for years to come and improved on etc, they will sell tons of them. I am not sure if you had WRX serial number 0001 you would be able to command the money the early 911's and 356's could.

As far as the horsepower wars...hmmmmm
2004 Neon RT O-60 5.6
2003 Altima 3.5 0-60 5.9
Honda Accord Coupe 0-60 5.9
These are not slow cars by any sense. These are cars you would have laughed at next to you at a light 5 years ago. Now you may give it a second thought before you drop the silk scarf. So what does this leave many of us 911 owners with--Heritage, uniqueness, 15 quarts of oil, all the really cool stuff that makes a 911 a 911.

arrivederci · 08-27-2003, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1982911sc
What actually are you defending here? I will admit the WRX is a neat little car and I am sure it has been well thought out when designed. Picture this scenario, you are at a cool cocktail party, jazz playing, a few Martinis into the night you and a group of guys go outside for a cigar. You happened to drive your 911. "wow, now that is cool!" will probably be one of this first comments you hear. "Can I see the engine? It's in back? Wow!, what do you mean it does not have a radiator?" A 911 is a true legend in the automotive world, it ranks up with Ferrari, Lotus, Lamborghini and pre 1985 Jaguar. The Rex again is cool and fast-maybe even has cool cloth seats. but it has no heritage, it has no soul. I think Subaru started off making toasters or clock radios or something. Subaru will probably sell more cars in a year than Porsche may have sold in ten. It is hard to compare the two. Again, it is the Experience of ownership, not just plopping in the car and stomping on the gas. The WRX will probably be a car that is built for years to come and improved on etc, they will sell tons of them. I am not sure if you had WRX serial number 0001 you would be able to command the money the early 911's and 356's could.

As far as the horsepower wars...hmmmmm
2004 Neon RT O-60 5.6
2003 Altima 3.5 0-60 5.9
Honda Accord Coupe 0-60 5.9
These are not slow cars by any sense. These are cars you would have laughed at next to you at a light 5 years ago. Now you may give it a second thought before you drop the silk scarf. So what does this leave many of us 911 owners with--Heritage, uniqueness, 15 quarts of oil, all the really cool stuff that makes a 911 a 911.

I was actually responding to the things you wrote about -- junkyards, seats, interior design, HP wars. I always thought that the racing heritage made the 911 legendary. Otherwise it wouldn't be much more than a fast, well built corvair with an enthusiastic following.

But I do agree with you about people wanting to check it out - asking questions, etc. I wonder if the same will be said about an STi in 15 years? Doubtful...it'll probably be something obscure that only enthusiasts know about and appreciate. Turbo AWD rocketship with world class handling and a boxer motor. Hey...what's a boxer motor? What's that funny lookin hood scoop do? Sounds kinda cool and sort of unique if you ask me.

1982911sc · 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jpinkert
I was actually responding to the things you wrote about -- junkyards, seats, interior design, HP wars. I always thought that the racing heritage made the 911 legendary. Otherwise it wouldn't be much more than a fast, well built corvair with an enthusiastic following.

But I do agree with you about people wanting to check it out - asking questions, etc. I wonder if the same will be said about an STi in 15 years? Doubtful...it'll probably be something obscure that only enthusiasts know about and appreciate. Turbo AWD rocketship with world class handling and a boxer motor. Hey...what's a boxer motor? What's that funny lookin hood scoop do? Sounds kinda cool and sort of unique if you ask me.

I really can't picture someone standing next to me at a party in 20 years saying "Damn, that one of them Subarus? Heard they made toasters?" I am not sure how rare a front engine four wheel drive vehicle really will be, especially with how many they produce. I can't even think of any 20+ year old Subarus that I have even heard of let alone seen in person. I still don't feel that Subaru belongs in the company of some of the great European classics of our time. At least the WRX has functional hood scoops, all prior Subarus implemented vestigal scoops, merley more plastic to crack with no purpose. Anyway who knows for sure, let us see what happens over time! Great thread by the way! OH and again, I think the WRX is an awesome car! Subaru really hit the mark when the put this together. I would even consider one as daily driver! May be fun to have all that power available all the time instead of just weekend sunny days!

stuartj · 08-27-2003, 04:01 PM

"Think about it this way. You are driving an icon. Not a cheaply clad, plasticy, car that is sold by the 10's of thousands each year-that will never be a classic. OK, so maybe the WRX can beat you 0-60(I personally have never raced one yet? curious to see how I would do). But how long before that WRX would burn up on a racetrack, how long before that car ultimately ends up in a junkyard? Your 911 will never. When you sit in your car, on those German leather seats and look at those kickass VDO gauges, air cooled fan in back. The WRX guy is sitting on cheap Japaneese cloth seats, sitting in a sea of cheap plastic all with the character of a doorknob. Porsche ownership is all about the total experience. I drove mine to work today, I get so many looks in my car, everyone in the left lane just moves out of the way on the expressway-out of respect, (they don't do that for my Trailblazer!).

It takes a rare breed to drive a 911. Not everyone can just jump in and drive one, like a Honda. When I am driving my 911 it a totally body experience, I am not talking on cell phones or listening to the radio. I am listening to the engine and anticipating my next shift, etc. It is really driving! "

__________________________________________________ __________

Oh please. Have you had a look at the interior of a 996 or a Boxster. And what is the price multiple of those cars relative to a Subaru?

Its about "fitness for pupose". If impressing the great unwashed at parties and traffic lights is your purpose, then your Porsche wins, hands down.

The 2.0T WRX has been on the road, rally circuit and more recently the racetrack since 1994. In any sort of "bang for buck" measure, they are the best value HP car on the planet.

They are not 911s. They are a competely different beastie. But "I drove mine to work today, I get so many looks in my car, everyone in the left lane just moves out of the way on the expressway-out of respect" -please, get your hand off it.

stuart 87 carrera