front camber adjustments

[Tim Tilghman]

I just had my 83 SC aligned and asked the shop to give me about -1.25 degrees of camber in the front with as much caster as possible. All the camber they could eek out of the car is -1.1 and caster only went to 5.0. Assuming the shop knew what they were doing, what can I do to get further adjustment up front? The car is at about "Euro" height and my local roads won't allow me to lower the car much more(maybe another .5 or .75).
As long as I'm asking alighnment questions, here's one more. I went to three front end shops before I found anyone who had a clue how to deal with the rear camber and toe adjustments. Even then, they seemed incapable of adjusting the 12 mm cam bolts until I helped them by taking the car home and adjusting the camber cam bolts to the maximum setting so that they could adjust the car on the rack by "lowering" the car down to the proper camber setting.(gravity was on their side) Have any other 911 owners had this problem? Is it normal to have this much difficulty turning these bolts with the cars weight on the suspension? I live in a somewhat isolated area so the choice of shops is limited and I may need to know more about the car's adjustments than the technician so that I can coach them during future alignments so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks......

[bigchillcar]

It's not a 911, but I adjusted my brother's camber in the garage tonight on his '94 Blazer full-size. I adjusted with the front end jacked, wheels off the ground. When we drove and saw it was too negative (too positive to start), I tried to make a quick adjust with the weight on the wheels - no go...the adjustment wouldn't hold long enough for me to turn the locking nut.

I've actually never touched adjusting my rear camber/toe, but don't track in Arkansas either!
Ryan

[jhoughton]

I just did an alignment on my 81 911SC. We couldn't get more than 1.3 in the front and that was using the strut tower brace to get the extra .2 out of it. You really need aftermarket camber plates to get anymore than 1.1 out of it.

As far as the rear goes, the alignment rack at the shop I use has a lift built into it to take the weight of the adjustment bolts. You just lift it up about 4 inches and then make your adjustments.

[Vipergrün]

Tim, you may want to pull the camber plates off and remove all of the black undercoating in, on, under, and around all of the pieces. I had undercoating on the *collar* of the camber plate, as well as in the strut tower opening. This did not allow for maximum alignment settings to be obtained.

-B

[Chuck Moreland]

Do clean off all the black goop. Use a heat gun to get the thick stuff, them use chemical to get the ret.

You can get a little extra range by enlarging the bolt holes. Figure out where you are hitting, then use a file to open it up a bit. These two steps will easily give another .5-.75 degrees.

[Vipergrün]

Chuck, I have seen aftermarket camber plates with two sets of holes fore and aft. Could the stock plate be drilled in a similar fasion to get more adjustment? Do folks ever file/grind the actual strut tower opening? That may have a structural implication, tho.....

Thanks
-B

[surflvr911sc]

I filed out the three plate mount holes to get more adjustment. I also found that the plate itself would hit in the tower before the mount (part that goes through the hole) part of the plate hits. The only way I can see to get around this is aftermarket mount plates unless you modified the plate itself but that didn’t look like a good solution to me.

Filing out the big hole will get you nothing and may compromise a little strength in an area that can’t afford it. The metal there is also doubled up (thick) and flared so you would need a rotary file to do it, unless you have Arnolds biceps.

File out the three plate holes and you should be able to get to –1.5 pretty easily. Same goes for more caster.

[Chuck Moreland]

You could remove the weld nuts from the camber plate (half the time they fall off) move them over a bit and re-weld. That would work.

I have taken a small amount of material out of the strut opening, but I wouldn't get too crazy. The camber plate itself actually lends a great deal of strength to this area.

[surflvr911sc]

Originally posted by Chuck Moreland
You could remove the weld nuts from the camber plate (half the time they fall off) move them over a bit and re-weld. That would work.

You would still have the same issue of the plate hitting the inside of the strut tower but it would do the same thing as elongating the plate mount holes and would get you to -1.5.

[Vipergrün]

So, the real answer for crazy negative camber settings is a narrower camber plate which will allow for more movement on the underside of the strut tower opening. Is this what the aftermarket ones offer?

[surflvr911sc]

If they are any good they do. Some seem to be so close to the stock ones that I doubt they do much for you so look around. I’ve seen the one’s that have slots, so the monoball can slide in the plate to adjust and the concept looks good but I don’t really know anything about them.

For a mostly street 911 I think that the stock plates w/ Chuck’s monoballs are the way to go w/ -1.5 degrees camber.

[Vipergrün]

Hmmmm, I see another product line in Elephants future

[surflvr911sc]

Thinking the same thing.

[makaio]

Tim, I offer no insight other than I know first hand how difficult it can be living in an isolated part of the state, where Porsche knowledge is not found around every corner.

There's a place in Redding that's suppose to be pretty good with Porsche alignments. I don't remeber the name of the shop, but I'll be using them here in the next couple weeks, and I'll report back.

BTW, is there a Porsche repair facility or shop over there in Humboldt county? I'm sure there's a air cooled VW shop

[J P Stein]

Tarret offset mount. This application is NARP, but they are made for a 911. It's set at all I could get...-2 deg, up against the inner
housing. I also had to remove the gravel guard from the strut...not the hot ticket for a street car. ........

[jyl]

Why not use a strut brace to pull the strut towers a skooch closer together? The shop that aligned my car said if I wanted to get more than -1.5% that's what they'd have to do.

[jpachard]

Originally posted by jyl
Why not use a strut brace to pull the strut towers a skooch closer together? The shop that aligned my car said if I wanted to get more than -1.5% that's what they'd have to do.

I managed -2.5 deg camber by doing this method, plus removing the strut stone gaurds. This is a 90% track car though.

Cheers, James

[gumba]

I've been using the Wevo Camber King kit for the past few months as part of a test group for the product. This is set up on our track/street car. It's currently set up with 1.8 neg. camber, but will go up to 2.8. A friend has one on order and was told they would be out at the beginning of Oct.
'73 targa track/street
'73 "S" coupe
'68 v.w. crewcab w/2.4 & 5 speed

[jyl]

Chuck, can your triangulated brace to pull the strut towers inward enough to get an additional -1 deg camber?

Would the triangulated aspect help make sure the towers were pulled inward equally, rather than, say, getting an additional -2 deg camber on the left and no additional camber on the right?

[Chuck Moreland]

Originally posted by jyl
Chuck, can your triangulated brace to pull the strut towers inward enough to get an additional -1 deg camber?

Would the triangulated aspect help make sure the towers were pulled inward equally, rather than, say, getting an additional -2 deg camber on the left and no additional camber on the right?

The triangulated brace can dial in a great deal of camber. However, a practical limit is established by the hood gap. When you pull the towers together you close up the gap.

So realistically, you might be able to pull the towers 1/8 to 1/4 inch maximum. This will yield something less than 1/2 degree additional negative camber on each side.

The triangulated brace pulls the towers equally. The pull on the towers is created with the horizontal brace only. The diagonal brace is adjusted for no pre-load.