READ ME: Planning new Sub-Forums for the 911 BBS Here...
 

Hi folks. It's been several months now, since I rolled out the Engine Rebuild Forum, in conjunction with the release of the Engine Rebuild Book. I was just scrolling through the forum the other day, and it really dawned on me that there was a tremendous amount of useful information in there, specifically related to engine rebuilds. Although that forum does not get the same amount of traffic as the main 911 forums, I believe that it has become a resounding success story.

Why did this forum take off on it's own? There are a number of reasons (I believe):

- Specific Subject Matter. By keeping the topic only to engine rebuilding and related questions, the forum becomes very focused. Less noise = better quality posts and interactions

- Leaving the 911 Tech forum alone. I have not moved any questions or posts in the main 911 forum to the Engine Rebuild Forum (well maybe I did a little in the beginning). Posts that are out of the realm of Engine Rebuilding did get moved back into the main forum.

- The Engine Rebuild Forum is prominently displayed on the main 911 Forums page. This allows newcomers and old-timers alike to see this option. If only available from the main forums page, it would surely get hidden.

- Good Expert Moderator. I have tried to answer and contribute to nearly every single post asked in this forum, so that people feel like they are being listened to. I don't let any posts sit with zero responses for any length of time. Keeping on top of this is probably the number one reason why the forum has been able to grow so well.

So, with that in mind, I would like to try the same formula again - rolling out another forum with specific moderators who will be *very* active in the new forum. I think that a "Brakes and Suspension" forum would be ideal. Jack has suggested that Bill Verburg (for brakes) and Tyson Schmidt (for suspension) would make excellent candidates, however, there are also many other qualified people on the board (Chuck Moreland, Steve Weiner, TimT, Jluetjen (sp?), etc...) The key would be a committment not only to moderate, but to baby and nurture the forum with responses to questions so that people feel - this is the place to get your questions answered.

I am also going to be changing the top of the 911 Forums page to be a big more streamlined. Right now, the sections that display the Rebuild Forum, Classifieds, and the 993/964 take up too much room (I'm using the built-in features from the software here). Look for a better look coming real soon...

Other potential sub-forums include:

- Chassis Restoration & Bodywork
- Race Prep
- Engine Conversions

I realize that a lot of you are against breaking up the 911 Forum, but I think the 'experiment' with the Engine Rebuild Forum has proven that if the above requirements are met, it can add value to the entire community.

What is your opinion?

-Wayne

HERE HERE!!!!


I vote yes. I'd love to see a forum dedicated to what I know best (OK, I'm biased to brakes and suspension...). Running a search picks up answers to specific questiuons, but there's so much more that one can learn just by browsing and paying attention to casual conversation from others that harbor the same interests.

Go for it.

Sounds good, Wayne. I love the engine forum. I wish that you would move posts from the main forum to the engine forum. I think that it would increase trafic even more. I have come very close to posting on the main forum in order to insure that my questions are seen and answered (quicly) by a larger number of people, but as a matter of principle, I have not done so. I have, however, had good luck with getting issues addressed in good time. I think that the correct number of 911 forums is an intersting issue. You now have three. I'm wondering if more than 5 is spreading things thin.
-Scott

Bad idea. It will split all the tech issues into little sub groups and take away from the mix in the main forum. The main forum will then dwindle to another off topic group. Remember that it is the mix of newbies, experienced, and knuckleheads that make the main forum a pleasant place to hang out for all. I really think this will destroy the dynamic of the board.
Mark

I'm with Mark... I think you'll lose expertise not gain it that way. These people on here aren't professional full-time support staff... and if you pull "experts" into other forums, everyone else misses out on their wisdom, because no one's got time to spend on that many forums.

I disagree completely with both of you. You don't have people single-mindedly visiting only one forum - we haven't seen that with the Engine Rebuild Forum.

What we have seen is topics getting lost on the 3rd or 4th page when people are looking for answers. Good suspension and brakes questions being crowded out by CarFax and eBay posts...

-Wayne

Wayne, I agree with Mark and dotorg. If you are worried about the CarFax and eBay posts then move those to a different foum. They are rarely technical in nature.

I don't think it will detract from the main forum at all, so long as it has a link at the top of the main 911 tech forum just like the engine rebuild forum.

People will still use the 911 tech forum as their base, then just occasionally click over to the links for some quick, specific subject matter that will save them from having to to a search, which can bring up a lot of unwanted material.

Then, the main 911 tech forum is just a backpage click away. I hate doing searches, since it is usually filled with threads that have nothing to do with my search, but just happen to have my keyword in it.

I agree with Wayne, with the traffic the main 911 tech forum is generating, posts sometimes drop of the first page in a few hours.
I like the more focussed approach of the engine rebuild forum and would certainly welcome forums more dedicated to suspension setup and bodywork.

It occured to me that I did not visit the engine rebuild forum for some time, I visit the tech forum at least once a day. This probably applies to more people. Wayne has indeed done a pretty good job in assuring the posts are answered, therefore these new forums do probably need more active moderation to stay alive.

Wayne,
You've just stated exactly what will happen with the main forum. It will become all carfax and ebay drivel and will be uninteresting to everyone long term. The engine rebuild section is very specific and technical and probably deserves it's own title.

This forum is a lot more than nuts and bolts. It's really a social gathering point for people like me who are tied to their computers all day long and love Porsches.

I admit that I don't know crap about a lot of things, but I can promise that segregating the forums will destroy the social fabric that you guys have built. I hope you'll think long and hard about changing it up.

You guys said the same thing about the Engine Rebuild Forum. The Rebuild Forum has grown, and so has the main forum. If anything, I think the subforums will attract more people.

A glance at the first few pages shows less than 3-4 posts on brakes and suspension. Putting them into a subforum will not decrease the scope of the main forum...

-Wayne

2 cents from an occasional poster
 

Let me preface my comments with two disclaimers

1) It's your site and I'll keep visiting whatever form it takes., I'm just glad it's here. I'm only offering an opinion since you asked. Keep up the good work and all that...

2) I run into people all the time in my line of work who resist change, even if that change is obviously better. This frustrates me no end, and with that I guess I'm saying that my resistance to your idea is not just a knee jerk oposition to change.

So here goes:

It seems to me different users visit the site for different reasons. I think I'm kind of typical in that I'm the guy who might have an hour to kill and I just start at whatever the most current post is and move backwards through the list until the wife or the boss makes me stop. When I have a specific question, I use the search tools, or post. If my post doesn't get a response I bump. By and large I'm a browser though, and the diversity of the forum pleases me.

By breaking up the site my browsing becomes less interesting because I won't get the diversity I get now. Don't get me wrong, I don't love the ebay posts, but you gotta admit they get pretty entertaining sometimes. If you made a forum for just ebay posts I don't think I'd go there ever. In fact, I've visited the engine rebuilding forum only once or twice only, and I'm guessing I've missed some interesting stuff because it wasn't posted in the main forum.

Anyway - IMHO I think it ain't broke and don't need fixin' BUT..as i said it's your site and you've gotta do what you gotta do. Thanks for listening.
:)

Wayne, how many active members do we have on the 911 Forum ?
I'm thinking, 3 or more posts per week.

While both sides have their pros and cons, the main problem with creating satellite forums from the main tech forum is that while the satellite forums would be used by those looking for answers, a lot of guys that have the answers or would otherwise post their experiences will mostly be browsing only the main forum. I for one have never visited the engine rebuilding forum, although I'm sure that if I did, I would have learned many things or perhaps been able to contribute to. The only way I see to force everyone to go the the satellite forums, is to eliminate the main forum altogether, and I don't think that's a good idea either, as that will definitely end up segregating the entire community.

Wayne,

Don't group me with the engine forum naysayers, because I don't recall any comments on it!

If you want another forum that has a good chance of growing ...make it a "Comedy, Pics, & General BS forum" ... which could gather the boredom-factor eBay, history/research/CarFax posts that DO clutter & fill the pages quickly at times, yet don't really justify movement to Off-topic Rantings, IMHO.

I DO agree with Mark on keeping the general mix of electrical, brake, engine tuning/troubleshooting, etc. posts together in this forum!

Yes. Absolutely, it is the right idea.

Is it possible to have a "proactive" thread ? In this situation, someone who is asking suspension questions on the main forum would then be directed to the Suspensions and Brakes Forum for more detailed info(?).

That would seem to reduce the concern (which I share) that the average poster could "miss" threads and posts that were on the S&B Forum.

Yep the engine rebuild section is great, but I can count the number of times I have been in it using less than 10 fingers.

A VW site I used to visit broke the different models out since then I rarely go back. To much of a hassle to find all the topics that might catch my attention

Well, what the heck. If it doesn't pan out it can always go back to the old forum.

I do kind of agree that the diversity of subjects is part of what is attractive about the forum. And I have to admit that I have only visited the engine rebuild forum a couple of times.

The bottom line is it is Wayne's site and he has made it work to this point. I am sure lots of folks thought it would never be the success it is.

Just one thing you might keep in mind though, Wayne. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
just my .02 worth

GREAT IDEA Wayne...

what about a "personalized BBS" for users...for example I come to the PP BBS and click on "MY PERSONAL SETTINGS" which includes posting the new posts on the topics I chose...not sure if this can be done...

I frequent an ATV bulletin board that has the forums broken out by manufacturer and at the top of each page is a "today's new topics" link that takes you to a page where all new posts or newly responded to posts get updated with links to their respective page and its location. This allows you to look for specific information regarding your brand while also seeing what else is new that day that may interest you.

So if the main forum gets broken down into satellite forums, perhaps a page like "today's new topics" can be created for those looking to browse the new daily posts of the 911 Technical Forum and those that want to visit specific satellite forums can do just that.

at some point, dilution (as in too many different forums) kills the brand. Whether or not the subforums you list will be the break point I don't know...but I think you run the risk.

There are already a zillion forums on your site. Some don't get a ton of action, in part due to a lack of critical mass necessary. Whether this is because there aren't enough users or becuase of dilution is up for debate. But how about trying to combine some of the existing ones. For instance, why can't the race prep be part of the racing/autocross board?

Diversity of posts is one of the things that keeps this place hopping. Specialization (ie a bunch of sub forums) can result in spreading things too thin. Why not just up the moderator intervention by say 10% to move the OT stuff to the OT board. That would richen the tech content here and might lessen your feeling that you need to partition the content.

Wayne....are you bored?
Leave things as they are. It's working very well as many have noted.

If I want structure and order I'll go to the library. For me, I dislike the sub-forums you already have and like some others, rarely stray from the main Tech Forum even though I have rebuilt 4 911 engines. I like the mix, the comedy, drama, ads about California Classix girls, you name it. Give me nostatic's marriage counseling thread and Leland Pate's Folgers exhaust, oil leak recirculating pump mixed in with how to time your cams any day!
Regards,

I'm a newcomer to Pelican. I've spent the last 2-3 weeks of my life surfing this forum in search of answers to my list of questions. What I have found (besides answers) is community. Do I have specific questions?...yes. Can it be challenging to find answers sometimes?...sure. However, when I'm tracking down one answer, the general forum usually leads me to another question...and that is a beautiful thing. I have found these answers amidts a community of "believers"...people that I have learned a lot from.

Maybe the answer is in improving the search capabilites so folks looking for specific answers may find them. Two things I know to be true so far...1) I found every answer I was looking for in the current state 2) There is real community in here, and I think that needs to be protected.

Thanks Wayne for providing such a great place for all of us to gather. Whatever happens, I don't think I'll ever be able to give this place up.

Wes

There are obviously 2 schools here. Wayne's and those in agreement, and those that are suspicious of a change. I'm going to have to join the suspicious group (or is it gruppe?) in mild protest to any significant breaking up of the 911 Technical BBS. None of the technical forums I have visited stay completely technical. And some have degraded quite a bit, but not this one. Without the mix of banter and humor that goes along with a bunch discussing thier 911's in general, it would become a little dry. If this is cut up into bodywork and paint, suspension (which should include brakes), brakes and then interiors and then sound systems, etc, then I guess Rennlist will get a boost.

Social fabric, I like that. Hard to create, easy to destroy.

Wayne,

does the version of the BBS software support something where you can have threads to appear in multiple forums at the same time? You could post to a satelite forum but users could still see the contents of all satelites in the main forum.

Another idea would be something where each user could pick which satelites will or will not show up in his personal 911 tech forum. Sort of subscribing to an individual subset of satelites.

I for one would like to choose, whether I just want to see the satelite forum limited to just one topic or the broad forum with all the variety.

Tyson has a good point in that the search function sometimes turns up a lot of noise. That's why people want satelites. On the other hand I sometimes find more usefull infos in the main folder than in the satelite.

Ingo

When I first bought my Trooper I was visiting a very active Edmunds.com forum for Troopers. It was much smaller, but same problem - everyone crowded in the same forum talking about everything. That board was split into many different forums (suspension, engine, "cafe", off road, etc).

Recently I went back there most of the "other" topics had dried up with little or no posts. The guy who started the idea of dividing everything (and spent all his time moving posts around) was still very active... in the main forum with everyone else.

I think people will gravitate to where everyone else is. If the active posters use the new forums - the less active will have to follow for the info. One thing that might be useful is an advanced search feature that allowed you to specify which forums (as in search more than one forum for the same info) were to be searched.

I think the great thing about this forum is the element of the unexpected. There's always a little nugget that surprises, that amuses or informs. Most of the posts I enjoy here are things I stumble across, not things I am looking for specifically. The more the posts get broken up into specific interests, the more that quality of discovery is lost.
United we stand, divided we sprawl.
C.W.

100%! DITTO!

I agree that it's working well as-is, Wayne.

Wayne, I'm among those not in favor.

The engine rebuilding sub-forum has been a success, but the other forum-splitting efforts have not been. E.g. regional forums are moribund; the 4 or 5 forums above the Off-Topic forum get very little traffic; even the AX forum was withering before a major effort by Jack O and others.

The success of the engine rebuilding forum might be unique, because (a) rebuilding is such a deep subject, (b) you put such effort into starting it up including providing so many of the initial answers, and (c) it was launched with the Engine Rebuilding book.

I also don't see a compelling reason to sub-divide the 911 Technical Forum. The only problem I see is that of topics moving to page 2 quickly - seems that can be solved by setting vBulletin to display more topics on each page (I think it has that setting?).

I also think the variety of the present 911 Technical Forum is a real plus. Most of the members seem to use this forum like a lively cocktail party - you come here to find lots of interesting conversations to join. (Although the BBS would need about 1000X more women members to be a really good party . . . maybe that's what you should work on?) Compared to Rennlist, where 911 content is scattered among 911, 911 Turbo, Upgrade/Mods, Wheels/Tires, AX/Racing, etc - that's kind of dry, more like picking the quarter's classes from a course catalog.

Therefore, I wouldn't be in a rush to subdivide. If you're determined to do it, I'd at least move slowly, one step at a time. Maybe pick the single deepest topic for subdividing (post a poll?), try making that subforum, see what happens, be ready to backtrack. Or - better yet - launch the new subforum in conjunction with a new 911 book - maybe you happen to have Wayne Dempsey's How To Make Your 911 Handle or 101 Projects To Hot-rod Your Porsche 911 up your sleeve?

Even though I disagree, I will take everyone's opinions and suggestions under advisement...

-Wayne

"le mieux est l' ennemi du bien" - Voltaire

Yep, you created this BBS...and it's yours to kill if you so wish...

I'm thinking a good thing. Specific ? being asked to a specific board. It's nice to have the pro's answer to speciality areas. I know some questions being asked could be overlooked in the general post section. Just my .02C Hey I’m happy to be here and not left out in the dark.

Paul, stop mincing words and let us know how you really feel...

"Les forum de Pelican étaient même populaires avec Voltaire."

- Jack Olsen

"Man braucht es nicht wieder herstellen, wenn es nicht gebrochen ist.":D

"ein gesparter pfennig ist lächerlich"

Klatu, Barrada, Nikto