The definitive aftermarket slantnose, pop up headlight thread

mr.bch · 10-23-2003, 04:29 PM

I have tried to start a discussion about this before, without success. So here it goes without so much beating around the bush.

The headlights on my slantnose are the worst part about my car. And now, with the fall days, I go to work and come home from work in the dark. They suck so bad, that it takes almost all the fun out of driving the 911. As soon as the 911 goes up for the winter, this is my project #1.

I know that they use RX-7 motors and relays and such. I have searched as many related threads as I can find for fixes. No dice.

Has anyone looked into a Miata unit? (they have rounds!) Has anyone looked into anything else? Those buckets are big enough...
The problem is not the motor, but the way the linkage is designed. It is a reallly bad design. I am going shop ebay for complete units from other cars and figure soemthing out. IT will be the end all solution for perfect pop ups, whatever it ends up being. I will stop nothing short of perfection. I am on a mission. If anyone has any info on this, this is the thread to post it.

Stay tuned.....

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

What about from a 914?

SprintStar · 10-23-2003, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mr.bch
I have tried to start a discussion about this before, without success. So here it goes without so much beating around the bush.

The headlights on my slantnose are the worst part about my car. And now, with the fall days, I go to work and come home from work in the dark. They suck so bad, that it takes almost all the fun out of driving the 911. As soon as the 911 goes up for the winter, this is my project #1.

I know that they use RX-7 motors and relays and such. I have searched as many related threads as I can find for fixes. No dice.

Has anyone looked into a Miata unit? (they have rounds!) Has anyone looked into anything else? Those buckets are big enough...
The problem is not the motor, but the way the linkage is designed. It is a reallly bad design. I am going shop ebay for complete units from other cars and figure soemthing out. IT will be the end all solution for perfect pop ups, whatever it ends up being. I will stop nothing short of perfection. I am on a mission. If anyone has any info on this, this is the thread to post it.

Stay tuned.....

You're saying the lights are not bright or the linkage sucks? I've got a 924, 924 Turbo and 944. All 1982 cars and the lights are damn bright coz they are the H4 sort and the linkage? They work good. The 928 has similar linkage, hence I believe the 930S can't be all that different. I recall seeing the motor in my neighbor's slantnose and it looks the same.

I can give ya more tips on the H4 lights. Talk to me.

Glad I can help for one instead of asking all the questions.

Sprint.

Kevin Stewart · 10-23-2003, 06:59 PM

I think he is saying the bounce around, you may find a good fabricator and have himstiffen them up, a couple braces may be all you need, i was gonna put the same type fenders on my car when i got the fenders it seemed that everything was kinda sloppy, i was gonna weld nuts on the fenders with braces instead of using nuts and bolts, Kevin

mr.bch · 10-23-2003, 07:02 PM

The brightness is not an issue. It is the linkage. It blows. Even with new bushings there is a lot of slop. The shake over pavement expansions and bumps. They flutter at 40 mph cuz of the wind. I even made my own bushings and shoulder screws in the spring to tighten the up as much as I could and they are already back to loosy-goosy. I know this is a typical issue cuz I have seen 2 wrecked factory slantnose 911s on ebay and they both mentioned 'good headlights, factory linkage, not the crappy aftermarket junk'.

I can draw up the linkage that I have easy enough. I don't have access to any 924 or 944 measurments, though, to cross reference them. The mounts for the entire ass'y is from behind the lamp. The 3 screws are horizontal and poke through the back side of the bucket in the fender (to remove the headlight ass'y you loosen the 3 nuts from inside the fender well). Hope this is an accurate description. I will post some pics tomorrow for better clarity.

mr.bch · 10-23-2003, 07:05 PM

The slop on mine isn't from the actual mounting of the nuts, it is all in the pivots points of the linkage. It is a bushing that slides in a machined slot. It is no time at all before your bronze bushing is worn out.

Again, pictures from me tomorrow.

KevinP73 · 10-23-2003, 07:19 PM

If your going to make it a winter project why don't you take your time and duplicate the factory system? Everything was 924/944 parts and still in abundant supply. No doubt that the quality is way beyond any mazda set up.

mr.bch · 10-24-2003, 04:07 PM

I did not know that it used 924/44 parts. As long as it fits in the bucket in the fenders, that might be a viable option. THX for the tip.

Kevin Stewart · 10-24-2003, 07:21 PM

Ok Im brain dead, i just remembered what the problem with the mazda lights were, most of the mazda light slant nose cars had the top of the fender cut off a plate welded on then the mazda light welded, so the actual top of the fender bounces up and down, the conversions that were done with mazda lights that didnt bounce had like a V bracket welded to the bottom of the head light bucket to keep it from bouncing, the bracket was actualy welded to the inner fender TUB, if you dont have support under the light bucket, I would seriously try it, it was the weight of the mazda stuff and two different plates welded on the top that caused flex, Kevin

mr.bch · 10-24-2003, 08:25 PM

Kevin, that's it exactly. The lid bounces all over, no matter how tight you make the bushings.

However, I am a bit sketchy about visualizing what you are saying with the V bracket. I have one archieved pic of when I was making new connections and bushings from this spring.

Perhaps this will help with some explanations (?). You can see the 3 holes in the rear of the bucket that the entire assembly bolts to. THat part seems to be robust enough, but the lid section bounces up and down on the motor.

mr.bch · 10-24-2003, 08:29 PM

Kevin, after re-re-re-reading your post, I think I am mistaken. It is not the top of the fender that bounces on mine, but the top of the lid. The bucket area and fender are very rigid, the part with the small angle iron on the lamp assy is rigid. It is everything that is beyond the angle iron that is bouncy. Hmmm....

Kevin Stewart · 10-24-2003, 08:36 PM

under the bucket is thier a support?(this is the bucket under the head light it may seem rigid but if thier is no support it will probably be enough movement to shake the head light, , also a simple heavy spring may keep the vibration down, what i mean is a a spring on the side when the light goes up their is tension, im sure if you have supports underneath the bucke the you must be missing some parts, i wish you had more detailed pictures, Kevin

SprintStar · 10-25-2003, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mr.bch
Kevin, after re-re-re-reading your post, I think I am mistaken. It is not the top of the fender that bounces on mine, but the top of the lid. The bucket area and fender are very rigid, the part with the small angle iron on the lamp assy is rigid. It is everything that is beyond the angle iron that is bouncy. Hmmm....

Hmm.... I think there's supposed to be a counter-weight for the headlamps... Is yours an original 930S?

Sprint.

911nut · 911nut's Garage

mr. bch, use spring washers to take the play out of the linkage pivots.

KevinP73 · 02:04 PM

Most likely you'll find that the pivots are not the only source of slop. The nylon bushings in the mazda linkage and the balls that they attach to are probably worn and sloppy also. Even worse the shaft that exits the motor head is very likely to be worn out and adding to the mess. The only cure for the shaft bushing wear is to replace the motor. Be warned that on MOST of these conversions the motors are transposed left to right from thier intended location in the Mazda. They are not the same left to right. You also have to be fairly accurate in the year of manufacture on the motors, they changed a lot from one year to the next. All in all it won't be an easy fix. You have my sympathies. Shall I scan the the factory manuals for you so you can research the OEM system?

kepperly · kepperly's Garage

as a member of the aftermarket slant nose owners club (pun) I see many variations of the mazda head lights. mine doesn't have a bucket, just a splash sheild and springs. I have had to rewire,
the complete head light system and replace the mazda relays that were manufactered by nippondenso, now denso and yes at night mine porpose's over less than smooth high way but I just figured it was part of the deal with a slant. I have seen factory
cars and unlike the aftermarket slant with two mazda assemblies the porsche factory slants only have one motor for the headlights in the center of the front boot.

keith epperly
87 slant nose wide body cabriolet carrera- summer yellow navy interior- soo Don Johnson

HawgRyder · HawgRyder's Garage

I just went outside to look at the Mazda setup....
The linkage is nylon bushed at the middle and the light end...and firmly bolted at the motor end.
I could not get any shake at all when they are open...thee secret seems to be that they go over the centre at the middle pivot point (the centre hinge of the arms) and lock into the up position.
This takes the pivot point out of the "slop equation" when they are full open.
Bob

mr.bch · 10-25-2003, 07:44 PM

I feel lucky to have buckets on mine. They are very firm and rigid, too. No supports under them at all. Just intergral buckets in the fenders.

The Mazda lights that I have are as exactly as described. A little loose in the nylon bushings and in the motor drive shaft. However, they do NOT lock in the up position. I am going to have to pull an ass'y and get some detailed pics. None of the linkage is visable without pulling the ass'y.

I was considering a spring to keep the slop down when in full open position, but decided against it. I figured this..... The drive arm nylon bushings and such looked so sketchy that I figured any extra force to overcome to get to full open would be hard on the motor.

KevinP, if you would be willing to scan some OEM docs for me, that would probably be pretty helpful.

KevinP73 · 10-26-2003, 08:26 AM

On Monday I'll fire up the shop computer and pull some data sheets for you.

SprintStar · 10-26-2003, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mr.bch

The Mazda lights that I have are as exactly as described. A little loose in the nylon bushings and in the motor drive shaft. However, they do NOT lock in the up position. I am going to have to pull an ass'y and get some detailed pics. None of the linkage is visable without pulling the ass'y.

Ok... I finally understand what you are saying now... My suggestion is to compare the original 930S setup with that of a 924/944. You will find that it is virtually the same, except maybe for the length of the central shaft that props up both the lights.

If you can get a set of lights and motor (one only) from a 924, I think you are set up for good and cheap too! The 924/944 lights have got counter-weights at the bottom of them to keep them from bopping up and down, etc...

I hope this helps....

Sprint.