Cal. smog question 2.7 to 3.0

[Trust Me]

I am just about ready to start work on my 77s project. The 2.7s engine has unknown problems and I was thinking of going with a 3.0. My question is; What will this do to me smog wise? Is it still legal? Will I have to see a ref.? I know the swap has been done many times. I just don't want to do all of the work and be stuck with a car I can't drive on the street. Guess I could just switch the plates from my Targa. LOL.
Any help would be great. Thanks.

[Joe Bob]

You will need ALL the smog from the newer car and put it in your earlier car. You most likely will need to see a referee unless you go to a smog shop that is not REAL expeirenced with a Porsche. The most obvious would be the lack of a smog pump if your 77 had one and the 3.0 did not.....

[yelcab1]

And you'll get to NOT have your car exempt in 2006.

[surflvr911sc]

I disagree w/ some of the above.

The car does need to have all it’s smog equipment that it originally came w/. For a ’77 this is mostly just the evaporative emissions. It will not require a cat b/c your car was not originally equipped w/ one. A smog pump will only be required if the 3.0 engine originally had one. If it had an O2 sensor then it will need to be hooked up.

When it’s all said and done you will need to take it to a referee for it to be legal and get a new emissions sticker. And your exemption year will remain the same.

You could probably get it by smog check stations for a long time and nobody would know the difference.

[Joe Bob]

Beg to differ.....they smog to the later year engine.

[nostatic]

does that mean if I put a 2.7MFI engine from a '74 Carrera my car will become smog exempt?

[surflvr911sc]

I realize that Mike but some of the emission equipment is considered to belong to the car and some to the engine. What specifically do you differ w/?

[surflvr911sc]

Bingo Todd! That's not the way it works.

[sammyg2]

The smog rules that apply are either from the model year of the car or the engine, whichever is more stringent. If you put a later model engine is a car that is exempt it would technically still have to pass smog but they would never know unless you tell them. As far as they know it is srtill exempt. Hint: don't tell them.

I have a hard time believing that a typical Calidfornia smog monkey will be able to tell the difference between a 3.0 and a 2.7 as long as all the 1977 smog equipment is in place (visual check). If it runs as clean as a 2.7 is supposed to and can pass the visual, I'd bet they would test it as a 2.7 and never know the difference.

[yelcab1]

After you get it tested ONCE and the referee or anyone else who knows enter your car in to the system as a car with a 77 engine, then the Sacramento computer knows and it tells the "monkey" what to look for. They test it to the later year engine with all the california requirement.

Nostat, you do not get to put an older engine in a later car to get away from the smog check. That is equivalent to tinkering with the original smog system and they make you take it out, put the newer engine back in to pass. The later engine in a earlier car argument works because it is supposed to have a better smog system.

The rolling 30 year exemption has yet to be tested with this modified later engine in an older car. This exemption is too new yet. But, if the referee interpretes the smog-to-the-later year engine thing correctly, then you do not get to exempt it. THis is really a call by the referee who has lots of power here. Of course, your way out is to reinstall the correct year engine, take it to the referee, have it exempted, take it back and put the other engine in. Or, you can try to convince the referee that is what you "intended" to do if he does not let you pass, and he might just look the other way.

[Trust Me]

WOW! Now that's a lot. Should I just rebuild my 2.7 and wait for 2006? Are you sure 2006 is the"magic" year? I mean nothing has changed for a while with the 74' smog exempt date. A 2.7 is a lot cheaper. But a 3.0 in my opinion is better. (Flame time). Anyway I don't want to miss the exempt time. That's when all of the fun starts! What the heck! The car is sitting here sreaming at me!

[dd74]

I received a notice for a smog check the day after I put down the cash to do my 2.7 to 3.0 swap. Very distressing. Nonetheless, I went through with the swap, had the mechanic who completed the swap take it to a smog check, and it passed with flying colors. In fact, it passed with something like half the allowable emissions of a 2.7 engine, which shows how clean 3.0s are when compared to 2.7s.

A 3.0 as others have said, is hard to distinguish from a 2.7. The engines look the same, and since I adapted the '74 exhaust to the 3.0, unless a smog jockey knows Porsche engine shroud colors or serial numbers, they comprehended no difference.

My bets hinge on a smog man not knowing any more than where to stick the sensor for the tailpipe. A 3.6 in an early car would pass in that regard. But who knows...

Because you have a '77, is it possible to adapt the '77 exhaust w/thermal reactors to the 3.0? If so, this may give you additional defense against a visual red flag. If you still have your smog pump, try and hook it up to the 3.0, if that will work.

Also, as I did with my 3.0 , I choked down the air/fuel mixture and set the advance to stock specs. This helped much to pass my car.

Good luck.

[yelcab1]

Don't bet on the REFEREE not knowing. There are only a few dozen of these state run places, and they have access to computer on-line print outs of every make, every model, every year of what the exhaust-emission related components look like, how they are installed, and how they work.

I did not get away with anything with my referee. He noticed the Ansa exhaust, the very cleanly done but still after market optical pick up in the dizzy, the missing thermal reactor, and the car needed a tune up. Because I played dumb, he printed a picture of what the stock assemblies look like and told me to make it look like that before he passes me.

In the end, it was his being a cool helpful guy that I squeaked by. I mean really just squeaked by.

[wrx paul]

Sorry to hear the trouble you california guys go through. Fires, mudslides, earthquakes, and emission checks?? What's next? Anyway, I never understood the smog pump. Isn't that like putting the air gun of a compressor up the tailpipe? Doesn't it just dilute the pollution that comes out and does nothing to clean it up?
I think the only thing I like here in NJ is the fact that I can get a classic plate on my car and anything else 25 years old. No inspections, renewal fees, and cheap classic insurance. Put my 3.0 in and just drive it, don't need no stinking permission.

[Joe Bob]

Originally posted by wrx paul
Sorry to hear the trouble you california guys go through. Fires, mudslides, earthquakes, and emission checks?? What's next? Anyway, I never understood the smog pump. Isn't that like putting the air gun of a compressor up the tailpipe? Doesn't it just dilute the pollution that comes out and does nothing to clean it up?
I think the only thing I like here in NJ is the fact that I can get a classic plate on my car and anything else 25 years old. No inspections, renewal fees, and cheap classic insurance. Put my 3.0 in and just drive it, don't need no stinking permission.

What's next? The Spanish Inquisition.....?

As to air pumps.....they inject air into the comustion chamber supposedly making a more complete combustion....coupled with the decel valve that keeps the throttle from closing too quickly on decel.

[wrx paul]

Originally posted by mikez
What's next? The Spanish Inquisition.....?

As to air pumps.....they inject air into the comustion chamber supposedly making a more complete combustion....coupled with the decel valve that keeps the throttle from closing too quickly on decel.

I don't see that. On my car they put air right above the exhaust valves, now this air can go either of two ways. 1 out the exhaust therfore diluting the exhaust with air and not really reducing emmissions but just adding fresh air to it. Or 2 into the combustion chamber when the exhaust valve opens. Now I'm not too sure about the time the valve is open, but from what I know about engines this valve will only be open for the time it takes for the piston to do its next stroke which will just mix it with the exhaust gasses and then out the tail pipe. Is this correct??
From what mikez explains wouldn't that be a forced induction?

[sammyg2]

No one expects the spanish inquisition

Old saying in my business: the solution to polution is dilution. Air pumps help do just that in addition to helping burn and extra HC that ends up in the exhaust like Mikey mentioned.

I have a question for Yelcab1, what was the reason for having to go in front of the referree? What circumstances require that? I am guessing gross pollutor or engine swap, am I close? Hope it never happens to me.

[Bruce Huling]

fwitw-
my 76 has 30 w/smog pump and cat, and it passes in az just fine. It isnt cali forn eh ah. Of course I do run a big "ARNOLD FOR PRESIDENT" sticker when I go in for the test.

[yelcab1]

Originally posted by sammyg2
No one expects the spanish inquisition

I have a question for Yelcab1, what was the reason for having to go in front of the referree? What circumstances require that? I am guessing gross pollutor or engine swap, am I close? Hope it never happens to me.

1. Bought a car from out of state.
2. It has no air-injection system, and cannot get it anymore, including junk yards.
3. Failed visual test at the local station.
4. Applied to a smog equipment exemption from the state
5. Went to the referree to beg for a pass.
6. Repeat steps 1-5 about 3 times, with tune ups, engine rebuild (separate reasons)
7. Located an old thermal reactor
8. Installed thermal reactor
9. Went to the referree again, failed emission, but was waived. He thought I suffered enough.
10. Immediately went home, reinstalled the after market exhaust.

My car is exempt next year. Yea.

[Joe Bob]

Geez...ah guess a warm shower at midnight is outta the question....hmmmm?


Prolly a good time for a 3.6 upgrade.....really farg wit the referee...what ya tink?

Just got back from swilling steamed clams and beers with the wife and kids.....