First Test Drive, Now I Need Feedback From You

[onewhippedpuppy]

Really, it can be expressed quite simply: now I know why all of you love your cars so much. After over a year of browsing this board and Rennlist, I've read your emotions, but now I understand. But enough waxing poetic, today I test drove a 911, not only my first test drive but my first drive, so I need some feedback on what I experienced in the car, as well as opinions on whether or not I should buy it as soon as I sell a truck to get $.
First the car: 74 911, 3.0 and 915 from a 78 SC, Bursch headers and muffler (loud), Fuchs, new tires, new Sachs power clutch, new brake lines, pads, rotors, 915 recently rebuilt, Sony CD/ JL Audio speakers/ Denon amp, RS style door panels from our host here. He's owned the car about 1 year, 3.0 had about 78000 on the engine when installed, he's put on about 3k since. Engine had tune-up and valve adjustment when installed. Engine is pretty well stock except the exhaust. All this info is from the owner, he seemed to know his Porsches, and claimed to own both a 930 conversion and a 935 slantnose conversion, though neither were at his house, so who knows, and he says that he has some reciepts.
Driving impressions: bear with me, as I've never been in a 911 before, conditions were light mist and about 40 degrees. Upon startup, no appearent smoking, engine coughed for a few seconds, then revved up to around 2k, owner said it's the warm up regulator going to work. Owner drove like an idiot trying to show off the car, but it seemed to run well, pulling very strong, especially in the upper RPMs. Ground the syncros going into first once, and into third once, but he was really forcing things, even I know 915s have a rep for not being in a hurry. Then it was my turn .
Started on an on ramp, clutch take up was smooth, no signs of slipping throughout our drive. Engine revved smooth and strong, and the sound, ooooh the sound. For a moment, the clouds parted and the angels did sing. Shifter was reasonably tight and smooth, very easy to find the gears, and I did not have any trouble with grinding gears, overall I was impressed after reading so many complaints about the 915. Now the bad: brakes felt like they had blocks of wood for pads, no stopping power despite a firm pedal, some vibration at higher speeds, piss-poor is being too kind. With every prod of the gas pedal the nose shot skyward, car leaned more on the corners than my F150, and I could not felt the bumps any more if I had been dragging my ass on the ground.
Cosmetic stuff: Inside the drivers seat is rough, both have covers, carpet is OK (black interior), two cracks in the dash, glove box pad is deformed, headliner is tight but dirty, tack bounces when you let off the gas, speedometer is off (too high). Outside, car has surface rust bubbles in lower corner of windshield driver's side, bubbles lower door skin driver's side, bubbles where rocker covers meet rocker panels both sides, bubbles at the bottom of both headlights, bubbles on the door strike plate passenger side, bubble behind the bumper accordion on one side. Fuchs are ok, a little faded, paint is faded, one chip on a side and some cracking on the hood, Carrera tail looks faded as well. Under the battery is a piece of steel that isn't painted to match, replacement piece?
That's all I can come up with off the top of my head, now to sum it up, should I get this car, and what do you think it would need? So far I assume shocks for sure, brake work (but what), speedometer gear (?), and the other stuff is more cosmetic, none of the rust is very large, and all of the panels still feel solid to the touch, none of the rust has penetrated the paint. Owner will include a rear sway bar as he says this car doesn't have one, 3.0 heat exchangers so I can add heat, and 4 rotors that he just took off his 930 conversion that he says are still good. If I get serious, I will have a PPI done, I just want your opinions, is this car worth $7500? Thanks in advance, Matt

[Kevin Stewart]

you need a ppi, but plan on spending at least 5 grand on the car, i repeat if you dont get a ppi you will be sorry, then get on this site and add up the parts to put it in the shape you want it, be careful of rust, is it a narrow car or sc rears, go get acouple pictures and post them here, Kevin

[geof33]

Lots of potential problems here, simply due to the conversion. Gotta get that PPI from a REALLY good shop familiar with conversion situations. Rust is a poss issue, but not as much as the pre 74 years.

In terms of handling... 911's are not "plush" riding cars. They are stiff and somewhat noisy. The sensation you feel of "your butt riding the ground" is exactly correct. It is how it should be. Feeling the road is part of the feedback you want in these cars. Now, having said that, some cars are stiffer than others. Some are softer. My only guess on the body sway you mention (without pictures) is possibly the ride height is way off. Could be too, the bushings are shot in the sus. but this makes for a more noisy, loose condition. The only other thing is a broken torsion bar or something (doubt this) unless it has been abused.

On to your test drive. If the owner was jamming gears in the "show off" mode, he doesn't know how to shift the rig and you've got potential problems in the trans due to abuse. Perhaps it was a mishap, but I doubt it. Especially since he did it twice.

Good luck. If it's a rust free car and you get a clean PPI I'd say sure it's worth the 6500-7500. I agree with the above, plan on spending some change to get it how you want it. It's an addiction and it never stops!!!

[GeorgeM]

Matt,

You didn't mention your budget. If you have to spend some bucks on the car. it may be worth holding off and just getting an SC. You'll likely have no rust issues and a more modern car.

[JonT]

Unless you are looking for a project car, there really is no reason to buy a car that is as rough sounding as this one. Lots of cars out there in much better shape that have been well kept by loving owners--keep looking. Spend a little more on a car in better shape and you will save money and headaches vs. buying a fixer upper--even if they seem to be "little" things that need fixing--these add up quickly. Keep asking questions here and get pics and as much info as you can on this board regarding the cars. Good luck--you'll know when its right!

[Jim Richards]

Matt, I'd recommend that you go slow on this one. It sounds like a fair bit of work is needed on it and Kevin's comment about dumping another 5 grand on the car is spot on. If I were in you shoes, I'd try to drive some other 911s to getter a better guage of what these cars are supposed to be like. Happy hunting!

[onewhippedpuppy]

Thanks for the response so far guys, kind of what I had expected, unfortunately. As far as the ride goes, this was far beyond just sportscar firm, which I like, this was crashing over each and every bump. Body roll was really bad, when I said worse than my F150 4x4 I wasn't elaborating. Ride heighth was a little high if anything, has 15" Fuchs that the owner claims are original. The lack of damping and excessive body roll made me think shocks, am I off base here? There weren't any clunking noises that people seem to associate with broken torsion bar mounts. This car appealed to me because the 3.0 L conversion was already done, it's right in my price range ($7500), and I basically want a car that's mechanically sound, so I can sort out the smaller issues as I go. Kevin, it's a narrow car, so do you guys think I should cross this one off of my list? The guy is firm on his price, or so he says. Geof33, any bargains around Colorado Springs? What about in Omaha Jon? Speaking of Omaha, we went to the KC Nebraska furniture mart yesterday, that place is scary big. Living in Kansas, 911s are hard to come buy, I had to go four hours to drive this one, so if anybody knows of any in the $7500 range within a day or so of central Kansas, please let me know. Thanks again.

[onewhippedpuppy]

[cassisrot]

Don't walk, run away from this car. It sounds like it has not been treated well and that translates into lots and lots of (your) money. The best advice I got when I was looking for a car was drive many, join your local PCA and talk to a lot of people. There are a lot of good buys out there, you don't have to settle for one just because it is there and you like the color. Also, prices are soft right now. You can get a very clean 3.2 in the low teens and a clean SC for 10k or less. Colorado is close to you and there are many 911's in the area that have been well maintained and also a lot of Pelicanites who will help with your search. For what it is worth, my rule of car shopping is never buy the first one you look at. And as far as PPI's go, I was just looking at a reining trained quarter horse buckskin gelding that I fell in love with. A great horse, cow savey, spin like a top, sliding stops, flying lead changes and very fast. I wanted him for versitility ranch horse competition. At the PPI it turned out he had a ligament problem that would have required stalling him for 6 to 12 months and, a minimum 1k of ultrasound treatments with no guaranty that he would be ok even then. Get a ppi!

[Paul Crowther]

Wait for another one! If after looking at several more cars for comparison you still think you want the first, fine. If it's gone, don't feel bad about it, because it has several potential costly probs, and you want heat right? First car: don't get into heat exchangers right off the bat.

I bought a very nice 82 SC for 10,500 and only had to put in hood struts so far. It's good to excellent and was well maintained. They're out there. I got lucky I think, but I've been looking for years for the right one to come along that I didn't have to feel nervous about, AND I had a PPI done before buying.

SERIOUS looking can be more fun that dreaming, because you already know you're gonna but the right one when it comes along. Enjoy the journey.

PAUL

[GeorgeK]

Only the rust yo mention is about 4K to repair correctly. Then you still have dead shocks, brakes to overhaul, and a shot interior.
Run away.

[nostatic]

"firm on his price"

Funny how a couple of months sitting on the market will change that.

The car sounds like a dog. Rust and mechanicals and an idiot owner. Remember, YOU ARE BUYING THE PREVIOUS OWNER. He's had it for a year, has likely toasted the tranny, and hasn't replaced shocks or brakes (which both sound gone).

No WAY should you buy this car, especially if it is the first one you've driven.

[jmohn]

Originally posted by onewhippedpuppy
... I just want your opinions, is this car worth $7500? Thanks in advance, Matt

Sorry Matt, but NO. From you're description, you'll have $15K in this car so fast it will make your head spin, and that's assuming the engine and tranny really are mechanically sound. For that kind of money you can find some near cream-puff SC's and early Carrera's.

Good luck,

Jerry M
'78 SC

[onewhippedpuppy]

Here's some sketchy, scary stuff. Owner was in Lawrence, KS, claimed to have owned the car for one year or so, did the 3.0 conversion himself. BUT, in my morning browsing I went to the KC Region PCA website, I figured hey, this guy claims to have 3 p-cars, surely he's a member (I forgot to ask). I found the car in the members section, but the name of the owner of the car is different! The profile was posted 7/18/2003, and I quote (paste) "1974 Porsche 911, purchased two years ago in non-running condition in need of complete restoration. Have performed most of the restoration and installed a '78 3.0L/915 myself, leaving only a good paint job out of the process so far." So either there is a logical explanation, or this guy bought (stole?) the car since this profile was posted, and made up the stuff about him doing the work himself. I did catch him BS-ing me about a couple of things during my looking at the car, and he left out a lot about the rust when we talked on the phone. Also, he claimed to have a 930 he converted from a 70 T, and a 935 slantnose he also converted himself, but he said that they were in a warehouse that he used as his shop. My wife thought the guy seemed sketchy, I guess I need to learn to listen to her, I hate it when she's right. I think I'll let this one pass.

Is that KC's aka porsche virus's car?

[onewhippedpuppy]

The name on the PCA profile was Daniel KC Moore.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by onewhippedpuppy
I think I'll let this one pass.

Don't think...KNOW. Run screaming. And realize that there are plenty more cars and owners like this guy out there. If you want a good car, you have to look hard and be patient. Also network...people on this board end up turning over cars on a fairly regular basis....but they generally are loved cars.

Beware the "I've had it for about a year" owner. Often these are people that didn't know how to buy a 911 (didn't get a PPI, didn't know what to look for), bought the first shiny car that came around, then started realizing all the things that were wrong, fixed a few, then decided to sell before dumping another needed $5K+ into it. It is a common story. So either the owner sells it himself, or in desperation dumps it for pennies on the dollar with a broker, who shines it up and the fun starts all over again.

Not to say that you can't get a good car from a broker/dealer, or that anyone selling after owning for a year is in that situation, but it seems very common.

[nostatic]

didn't porsche_virus sell his car awhile back?

[Doug Zielke]

Originally posted by onewhippedpuppy
The name on the PCA profile was Daniel KC Moore.

DOH!
Please do a search.
Here's a start:
Okay. That's it. I'm done. Come get this peice of SH**!!!

[nostatic]

yes he did...from August of this year:

1974 Porsche 911 for sale...updated to 3.0 engine...