340 hp NA C2, anyone heard of these guys

[D Hanson]

The guy at my shop today drove one of their cars and he said it was unbelievable. He said it was faster than any other normally aspirated 3.2 or 3.6 he had ever driven.

http://www.lenzmotorentechnikusa.com/LenzPowerKatPorsche.htm#Carrera24

Anyone heard of them. 340 hp without adding a turbo or supercharger would be nice.

[ZCAT3]

Never heard of them - but they also claim 310 HP out of a 3.2 Carrera with headers, exhaust, sport cats, cams, powerflow, enlarged throttle body, and new engine management. I have never heard of anyone getting near this with a N/A 3.2.

[Jack Olsen]

The power claims seem high, for what I would guess is something like MoTec, an improved MAF setup and headers. In the real world, you generally wouldn't make these very expensive improvements without upgrading the engine components in a pretty serious way.

340 hp and stock connecting rod bolts? Yikes.

What do they charge for all of their goodies?

[RickM]

The descriptions seemed to rique of voodoo and vagueness. Obviously they're quoting crank HP #s....but as mentioned they seem pretty high.

Very Ronco-esque:
Lenz PowerFlow
Lenz KatTronic
Lenz PowerKat
Lenz TurboTronic
Lenz Vega-matick

[Bill Verburg]

I've heard of them but never seen their stuff. They use a copy of 993RSR headers(good), and sport cams(good), and custom software(good). I seriously doubt the 340hp claims.

The factory needed a MoTec equivalent(or Motec itself) for engine management, cams w/ duration 293.7&deg I & 278.3&deg E(totally incompatible w/ the stock intake /throttle body arrangement, 3.8l, really big valves and ports, rods, etc to get an unstreetable race gas only 360-380hp

I have seen ~300-310 w/ the Lentz type setup and bigger valves/ports out of a 3.6.

[D Hanson]

The guy at my shop, Mike Wilkes, has been working with the best Porsche people in Memphis since I have owned Porsches, 1989. His shop kind of specializes in building RS America track cars/race cars so i don't think he would be impressed real easily. He said the car he drove yesterday or today was the fastest normally aspirated 911 he has been in and faster than any 3.6 he had been in. He drove a 3.2 they took to his shop.

[Jack Olsen]

That's nice, but what does it mean? They're claiming better numbers than factory 3.8 race motors with stock 3.6 components. I'd like to see specs, dyno charts and prices -- and less of their LENZ-tacular marketing verbage.

My guess is that if these guys had something better than all the competition (including the factory racing division), they'd be doing better than a single US distributor in Lincoln, Nebraska (not that there's anything wrong with Lincoln).

[D Hanson]

BTW, my C2 has about $ 10,000 + in engine work and etc. done by Ruf. MAF intake, Ruf chip, completely taken apart, polished, balanced, + what I added GHL, cat bypass, no secondary. Ruf had set up with primary bypass and etc. which may have been better.

Anyway, shop said the car he drove was stronger than mine. With my new clutch and the cat bypass, I am at 5.1s on G-Tech. My car is heavy though, cab with 18 inch speedlines . . .

[D Hanson]

The 340 hp is definitely flywheel according to their dyno. What would 340 be at the wheels (around 290???). My car is actually going on dyno this week as we are playing around with different chips and with different exhaust and which muffler to bypass or whether bypass all mufflers and cat and etc. I am interested to see what it will do on dyno.

[dfink]

Originally posted by JackOlsen
they'd be doing better than a single US distributor in Lincoln, Nebraska (not that there's anything wrong with Lincoln).

How did we get on Lincoln....

[Jack Olsen]

Originally posted by D Hanson
My car is actually going on dyno this week as we are playing around with different chips and with different exhaust and which muffler to bypass or whether bypass all mufflers and cat and etc. I am interested to see what it will do on dyno.

When you do, make sure you post it on the board! It'll make for a good rich-man-poor-man comparison with my second-hand motor, second hand headers, and beta-tested chip.

[Bothari]

NineMeister is hitting 400 bhp for their 3.8 race engine... they had a demo car with 350 hp for the street, read somewhere a test and it was supposed to be very good, but something like £25000 (british pounds) just for the engine...

[Jack Olsen]

Yeah, there's no denying that a 3.6 can be modified to big numbers. But these guys aren't even building a motor -- they don't replace the cams, or pistons and cylinders, or even do the basic durability upgrades like valve springs, retainers and connecting rod bolts.

[Bill Verburg]

Ninemeister is building a streetable RSR, You'll notice that they use Motec to allow happier cams. Bosch Motronic isn't going to allow anything happier than 993SS cams.

You can buy a 993 RSR and detune it a bit for ~$30k USD

[D Hanson]

So Jack, I hear you saying that relaibility should be an issue to the methods or lack of methods they utilize when gaining the improvements in power. I would possibly buy it if I was not scared to death about reliability issues.

[D Hanson]

Originally posted by JackOlsen
Yeah, there's no denying that a 3.6 can be modified to big numbers. But these guys aren't even building a motor -- they don't replace the cams, or pistons and cylinders, or even do the basic durability upgrades like valve springs, retainers and connecting rod bolts.

Not real knowledgeable about all of this stuff. Wish I was. Didn't this company state that a new cam would be used?

[Jack Olsen]

I'm no expert, either. Bill knows (and has done) a lot more with a 3.6 than I ever will.

It's very possible to get over 300 hp with a 3.6, but most of the paths to it are very expensive. Bill's 3.8 is (I think) a great example of a streetable high-output motor. A lot of other ones you'll read about are going to be better suited to the track (with frequent rebuilds) or astronomically expensive. Have the Lenz guys given you any prices, yet?

If I were in your shoes, I'd want to talk to a lot of experts about your particular goals, and -- if Lenz seemed viable -- to see a demonstration car of theirs, with hard and fast pricing and reproducible dyno results.

My gut feeling is that it's probably more cost effective to buy an already-built motor, if you can find one that fits your needs.

And you're right, their 340-hp kit includes cams. But I still find the claimed power very unlikely. I'd want to get their promises in writing, verifiable on a third party dyno, before I'd write a check.

[CamB]

My engine builder has a 340hp 3.6. It needed:

- GE80 cams
- 3.8 conversion
- 50mm individual throttle bodies (early RSR ones, as it happens)
- motec
- proper headers, no heat
- not a lot of muffling

It runs on 98RON, and would have cost lots.

[D Hanson]

They are going to get me a quote. I am probably not interested because I may be getting another car. Someone said a $ 5,000 range. Not sure if that is right. I was thinking more.

[Bill Verburg]

The limiting factor in an HO 993 is the cams, which are in turn limited by the Motronic. Once you go to Motec/Twm with the 6 individuale throttle butterflys a whole new world opens up.

Of course you have to modify and update all of the associated systems or they become new limits