Wayne's Tranny article

[fogcity]

I just read it and had one more question: I always feel it's the "right thing to do" by depressing my clutch pedal when I start my car - is this right or is it "nicer" to lay off the pedal and just have it in neutral when starting?

[Paul Franssen]

Er....I definitely always start the car with the transmission firmly in NEUTRAL!
Any other way seems, for various reasons, entirely wrong procudure, especially -heavens forbid!- if, for any reason at all, your shoes are wet and your foot slips off the clutch pedal, whatever, just as the engine catches resulting in the car lurches forward (into a passing pedestrian, or something like that).

[nestorjw]

I think he means having the car in neutral and the clutch out, rather than having it in neutral and the clutch still depressed. I am interested in if it matters.

[Langers]

Helps to have the car in netural with the clutch pedal in if you're trying to start the car in a cold climate.

[RT73S]

All newer cars are interlocked so you can't start them w/o the clutch depressed so it doesn't seem most people even have a choice in that matter.
His comment about having the trans in N and leaving your foot off the clutch at stoplights is to reduce the thrust load on the crankshaft ......
BTW, he had something weird about the short shifter giving more leverage that sounded strange. Anybody?

[Wayne 962]

Originally posted by RT73S
BTW, he had something weird about the short shifter giving more leverage that sounded strange. Anybody?

Let me repost (from 101 Porsche):

Ironically, many people install a short shift kit onto a poorly shifting transmission, and then magically proclaim it 'cured.' In fact, in most cases, they didn't fix anything with the transmission - the short shift kit is simply 'muscling' the transmisison into gear using more force and more leverage. The bottomline? Only install a short shift kit into your car if your transmission doesn't have any shifting problems.

-Wayne

[Wayne 962]

On the issue of starting - theoretically, it shouldn't make hardly any difference if you start the car with the clutch pedal pushed in or not. There are two small advantages touched on already:

- With the clutch pedal in, you can't accidentally lurch the car forwards in case you forget to put the transmission in neutral
- In cold weather, or with engines with weak starters, pressing the clutch disengages the transmission from the engine and thus you don't have to spin the internals of the tranny. However, I would guess that the spinning of the tranny with the car in neutral and clutch engaged is *almost* negligible. After all, you can spin the mainshaft with your hand very easily when the tranny is out of the car.

For that matter, I typically press in the clutch when starting the car...

-Wayne

[jeff m]

Pressing in the clutch, in nuetral, is probably more an aquired habit than a neccessity.

Not sure if there has been other feedback on your articles.
But I think they are very good, keep em coming.
Jeff

[Paul Franssen]

On Wayne's articles: I've been reading every single one, with interest (even the ones about water-cooled engines!).

BTW, in respect of the $1 million dollar question post, as you can guess I'm not much of a customer here in Europe, but I truly appreciate this site, it's a grand initiative, a true "standard for the industry", in spite of the OT excesses this medium inevitably has to endure (in fact, the OT content of this site is, all in all, quite limited, which says a lot about the quality of the participants (oh, gosh, I'm starting to blush...)

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
Let me repost (from 101 Porsche):

Ironically, many people install a short shift kit onto a poorly shifting transmission, and then magically proclaim it 'cured.' In fact, in most cases, they didn't fix anything with the transmission - the short shift kit is simply 'muscling' the transmisison into gear using more force and more leverage. The bottomline? Only install a short shift kit into your car if your transmission doesn't have any shifting problems.

-Wayne

Hmmm, doesn't a short shift take more effort to shift because the fulcrum point has changed (moved up)? Sooo, you actually have less leverage to muscle the transmission into gear.
I think the improvement is partly placebo effect and partly due to the new shifter bushings people often replace at the same time.
-Chris

[red-beard]

Originally posted by ChrisBennet
I think the improvement is partly placebo effect and partly due to the new shifter bushings people often replace at the same time. -Chris

It depends on the short shift kit. If all that happends is cutting and reworking your own shifter, I would expect worse shifting for all the reasons above.

If you replace the shifter itself (ala Rennshift or such) you are getting an improved shifter, which along with bushing replacements, will truely help shifting.

There are 2 bushings and a spring in the shifter, under the lockout plate, that I think no one knows about and no one replaces. With this spring weak and the bushing bad, you get lots of slop even if the rest of the tranny is wonderful.

See the last page of:

http://home.san.rr.com/pb914/

And I disagree with Wayne on not using the clutch during stop lights.

James

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by RT73S
His comment about having the trans in N and leaving your foot off the clutch at stoplights is to reduce the thrust load on the crankshaft ......

Starting an engine = no oil psi before start

Depressing clutch before start = no oil psi at a loaded thrust bearing

Starting an engine with a loaded thrust bearing = no oil psi on a loaded thrust bearing and spinning crank = NG, IMHO

[Zeke]

I will have to agree with RoninLB. Going back one article, I have read that using the engine deceleration drag and down shifting when braking is relatively moot with today's brakes. If you have a big rig with a Jake Brake, go for it. About half the time, I just slip the car in nuetral and brake to the stop. If I anticipate not coming to a full stop, or otherwise needing to be in gear in advance, I will downshift. Of course, when driving hard recreationally, I play with the gears. But, remember, when driving and braking hard, you're not in a gear long enough to aid in the braking. It's all brakes, you're downshifting because you have to be in the gear you're gonna need when you reach the entrance to the corner. Not so in normal traffic. I think downshifting in normal traffic is excessive and a show off. I mean downshifting to a fairly high RPM, otherwise, there would be not much engine braking effect anyway.

[RT73S]

Originally posted by ChrisBennet
Hmmm, doesn't a short shift take more effort to shift because the fulcrum point has changed (moved up)? Sooo, you actually have less leverage to muscle the transmission into gear.
..................
....................
-Chris

Bingo, no disrespect to anyone (W) it just doesn't jibe up w/ the physics as I see it ???????

[john walker's workshop]

i have to agree. the longer link below the pivot point moves the shift sleeve faster than it was designed, so that tends to prematurely wear shift items, and the shorter link above the pivot increases the effort required to do the shifting.