Good fun on I-15, CHP question!

[catuck]

What's all this talk about radar? All the cops in RI use laser! From what I understand, laser detectors don't really work, so radar/laser detectors are useless anyway.

[speeder]

I speed all the time, no detector, but I follow a lot of the common sense rules in that C&D article. I drove home to Minnesota from CA. last X-mas at ~100mph the whole way there and back. I have been lucky, but you make most of your luck in this game, IMO. Ron is right, it's a chess game.

Haven't had time to read that whole article, but saw the part about how speeding, (to a point), makes you a lot more of an alert driver. On a long, cross-country drive at or near the speed limit I get so bored that I just go to the Bahamas. If speeding, my attention level is way up, partly looking for smokey and partly just driving well and safely.

I agree that doing 140 on a public road is way too fast, unless maybe it's the middle of Montana w/ 5 miles of visibility. Doing 100 when everyone else is driving 85-95 is one thing, but any more of a speed delta is just too dangerous. Burnin' oil probably wouldn't get POed if someone is doing 100 but keeping their distance from other cars, am I right?

We recently had a tragic fatal accident with a new 'vette going 120+mph on the 101 freeway in the left lane, he came up on a Honda Accord doing ~70 mph, the Honda moved right just as the 'vette went to pass him on the right, (a genius, I know), he rear ended the Honda of course and flipped it, killed the guy driving, poor guy hardly knew what hit him. What hit him was a sh**bag on parole driving the 'vette, he is back in jail where he belongs with a murder charge on him. It is so not worth it driving recklessly on public roads, a little speeding is OK in my book as long as you can pay the fine.

[jluetjen]

he rear ended the Honda of course and flipped it, killed the guy driving, poor guy hardly knew what hit him.

It is so not worth it driving recklessly on public roads, a little speeding is OK in my book as long as you can pay the fine.

Yeah, who "paid the fine" there??? If the risks of speeding were only the death of the speeder -- I wouldn't care. But the risks extend to me and my family who may not be speeding. In that case I feel obligated to point out the idiocracy of your choice of action and the sincere hope that you are persecuted to the full extent of the law for at least reckless endagerment. I wonder if posts such as those expousing the joys of driving 100 MHP on public roads on this web site would constitute evidence of premeditation if one of the posters were to wind up causing or in a serious crash. Would that change the charge from speeding or reckless endangerment to premeditated murder?

It easy for all of us to shake are heads and point out the errors that were made when we read or hear about someone having a bad accident at unsafe speeds. Anyone could see that after the accident. It takes an adult to recognize the risks and errors in judgement BEFORE the accident happens.

Enough people are going to die on the roads this holiday season and rob the world and their families of a worthwhile and valuable life. Why add to the carnage?

I hope that you can have a happy holidays with the ones you love -- assuming you get there safely.

[niner11]

jluetjen, I don't think that anyone here is advocating 140mph speeds on our highways. Just some comon sense when traveling 20% over a posted speed limit. Maybe you should direct that rant of yours to some ricer street racing board.

[concentric]

Originally posted by jluetjen
Yeah, who "paid the fine" there??? If the risks of speeding were only the death of the speeder -- I wouldn't care. But the risks extend to me and my family who may not be speeding. In that case I feel obligated to point out the idiocracy of your choice of action and the sincere hope that you are persecuted to the full extent of the law for at least reckless endagerment. I wonder if posts such as those expousing the joys of driving 100 MHP on public roads on this web site would constitute evidence of premeditation if one of the posters were to wind up causing or in a serious crash. Would that change the charge from speeding or reckless endangerment to premeditated murder?

So your driving habits are perfect? You never exceed the speed limit, change the radio station, talk on the phone, look at the person in the next lane, turn around to tell the kids to stop saying "Are we there yet?" right? I'm just pointing this out because it seems to me that you are overly concerned with making sure people are punished for speeding. What about the million minute lapses of attention you have had over your driving career, aren't these "reckless endangerment", too?

I understand your desire to make the road a safer place, but if you examine the true risk to you and your family (who seem to be the motivator for all these posts, which appear like clockwork in every thread about speed): 1. speeders like people here are the least of your worries (distracted and/or impaired drivers are the largest, IMO) and 2. Driving is inherently unsafe, anyway. If you want to keep your family safe, walk.

BTW, to all you 100 mph drivers... Feel free to pass on the left, by the time you get close to me on the highway, I will be nicely out of the way.

JCM

[MFAFF]

Don't fall into the trap that speeding kills.....

Loads of other things we do whilst driving also kill and there is little crakdown on those.

Over here ther has been a huge focus on speeding with a vast number of fixed and mobile cameras being installed.

The radar detectors work well as do GPS based fixed site alerting units. Only a few laser units in use becuase they have gone to the next great toy, digital scanning cameras placed several kms apart...so on a great stretch of road you'll pass on camera which scajn your tag, logs the time and starts counting, a few Ks later another camera scans the tag again, stops the clock and works out your speed. If its over the limit then a ticket is posted to you....

Completely passive but easy to avoid if you obey the speed limit.

It will not stop you talking on the phone, picking your nose, driving under the influence or in a stolen, unregistered, uninsured car, but it will get you if you go to fast.

Ah progress.

Rumour on the web is of a 173mph bust on the M25, the London orbital motorway (like the Capital beltway in DC), driving a Porsche Turbo!!!!!!Oh dear.

Over here a 100mph bust is 'usually' a 12mth ban with drivers ed and a retest before you get back behind the wheel.

And now most if not all track day and race series insist on a valid full licence before they let you on track... Opps.

Be safe out there. Remember whilst we may not cause the accidnet we'll be involved.

[jluetjen]

I don't think that anyone here is advocating 140mph speeds on our highways.

Read again...

We had litttle traffic to deal with, but he got the jump on me because of a slower car. He was pretty quick to 100. I shifted from 3rd to 4th at about 120 (5500-6000RPM). I had passed him before the shift. I ran til about 140.

Comfortable at 72? Step it up to 85 - 90,

What's the problem with doing 140 when no ones around? I think it's reasonable safe in my car.

Anyhow,

So your driving habits are perfect? You never exceed the speed limit,...

Of course not. Get real! But do I drive 2X the speed limit. NEVER. Why does that matter? Because some people mistakenly believe that 2.5X the speed limit is no worse then 5 mph over the speed limit. Maybe in the binary case of will you get a ticket or not this is true. But in the real physical world the amount of speed really matters.

Don't fall into the trap that speeding kills.....

You obviously don't have any appreciation of the laws of physics. While admittedly I might die sitting here in my chair travelling at 0 mph, that's a given in any case.

Anyhow, Physics 101: Energy = 1/2 mass * velocity ^2.

If I hit my wife's car in the driveway at a speed of 5 mph, I can say with great certainty that the chances of either of us sitting in either car dieing is not measureably greater then it is sitting where I am now.

My 911E weighs 1091 kg
Closing speed = 2.24 meters/second
Resulting Energy = 2725 joules.



So we know that an accident involving 2725 joules will be a fendor bender with no injuries as long as no one is between the cars.

Now increase the closing speed to 15 mph and the result is 24526 joules or 9 times the force. At this speed the air bags will pop, glass will break, but chances are the driver will be OK. You asked about my driving record? I can safely describe the results of a 15 mph accident since I had one earlier this year when I rear ended a truck in traffic. Shame on me, but at 24,526 joules, no one was even close to being hurt.

Up at highway speeds (55 mph), we're talking about 329,744 joules or 121 times the energy involved in a 5 mph fendor bender.



At those speeds people will die without airbags and seatbelts. Even with those features, it's a pretty rough hit and people are going to the hospital. This would also be the result if you were travelling 110 mph and rearend someone travelling 55 mph. The bonus is that when that happens there will be follow-on impacts and by impacting the other car, you will impart your 110 mph energy (1.3 Million joules or 484 times the energy of a 5 mph hit!!!) on the other innocent car which then may hit a wall with all of that energy.

Here's a picture from a 100+ mph accident from someone who was street racing.



Now what would happen if you were to hit a parked car at 140 mph? 2.1 Million joules of energy would be involved, a whopping 784 times the force involved in my driveway fender bender. What happens when you hit something at 140 mph?



So does speeding kill? Absolutely.
Does the magnitude of the speed make a difference? Absolutely

[speeder]

Originally posted by jluetjen
Yeah, who "paid the fine" there??? If the risks of speeding were only the death of the speeder -- I wouldn't care. But the risks extend to me and my family who may not be speeding. In that case I feel obligated to point out the idiocracy of your choice of action and the sincere hope that you are persecuted to the full extent of the law for at least reckless endagerment.

I'm not sure what the fine is these days for murder in CA., (ask OJ?), but the guy driving the 'vette would be that guy.

This would also constitute the first time that I have ever been persecuted for speeding, or more specifically, talking about speeding. Guess that I've just been lucky.

I have no disagreements w/ your physics lesson, other than the fact that it is unneccesary and pedantic. Everyone here has walked into a wall, or been in the way of something moving at one time or another. I understand motion just fine, thank you, and that is the reason why I do not drive in a manner which causes accidents. Have you ever driven on an open highway in the American west? When you are cruising @ 100 mph in the left lane of mostly empty highway and slow traffic is doing ~80-85, you do not exactly zoom up on people. It's more like a crawl. I do not believe in discourteous driving or sneaking up on other drivers ever, and my reflexes and driving skills are excellent. The biggest danger that I face on an open highway is a speeding ticket.

Let me ask you a question: Do you feel like your safety is threatened when a highway patrol car passes you @100 mph? (Often their cruising speed in CA.). Let me clue you in on a little secret, 90+% of the time they are not on their way to some life-threatening emergency or chasing someone. They are simply driving that fast because it is a comfortable speed in a capable car w/ a good, alert, sober driver. And it goes w/o saying that speeding penalties are not an issue. But also, these are the people who come upon every fatal accident and know all of the causes, including speed, alcohol and other impairments. Do you really think that they would drive in a manner that substantially increases the likelyhood of an at-fault accident causing death or dismemberment?

[jluetjen]

Do you feel like your safety is threatened when a highway patrol car passes you @100 mph?

Yes. Especially without their flashers on. But ultimately I have to trust their judgement because they MAY be going to an emergancy.

Do you really think that they would drive in a manner that substantially increases the likelyhood of an at-fault accident causing death or dismemberment?

They're only human. It's not unheard of for police to be charged reckless endangerment if their judgement is flawed. But thankfully not common as far as I know.

BTW. my apologies if the my discussion of physics seemed like old hat, but statements had been posted earlier by people who apparently did not the same understanding.