Who owns who?

[atr911]

I was checking some stuff out lately and had some question that some may be able to answer:

I know many of the smaller auto manufacturers have been bought out by larger companies. Is ferrari still independantly owned? I know lamborghini has been purchased, but by who?

Reading the financials on some auto manufactures I remember seeing that Porsche was one of only 2 companies to post increases in profit over the last year, who was the other company?

I ask this after reading the posts wayne's been making on the ferrari board. One of the mechanics (on the ferrari board) mentioned that the boxster saved porsche from going bankrupt, I always understood that they were one of the, if not THE most profitable auto manufacturers (if you include their engineering and all divisions)

Anyways, just curious!

Adam

[MY83SC]

Adam.....I do believe...from what I read ....Porsche has one of the best profit margins of any car manufactuer....I hope so

[Mark sP]

Isn't Ferrari still owned by Fiat? and Audi own Lamborghini.

Some bloke bought MG/Rover from BMW for a quid a couple of years ago!!!

[Jack Olsen]

Porsche boasts of being the most profitable auto manufacturer, and then makes most of its decisions with the rationalization that they have to rescue themselves from looming disaster.

This actually isn't that far off the mark, since Porsche is not a particularly high-volume manufacturer, and the demand for its product (a luxury sports car) will change with the economic times, as well as whether or not the car is currently the popular model with nouveau-riche types.

Ferrari is owned (90%) by Fiat. Even with a cash-strapped parent company, Ferrari doesn't feel the need to make SUVs.

Porsche may one day be owned by Volkswagen, and I'll maybe irritate some by saying that I think this would allow Porsche to focus on its core strengths much more -- and leave the non-sports-car models to its parent division.

[jazzbass]

Obviously we all know that Porsche is independant. but that still doesn't stop me from getting into the "Porsche is just a division of VW" arguement with the, well, less enlightened. I had a guy at work tell me he knew FOR A FACT Porsche was owned by VW because he helped a guy rebuild a 914 20 years ago. I tried to explain the whole 914/914-6 thing, but to no luck.

Here's what I know (please correct whatever is wrong - this is all from memory):

Ferrari, Maserati are owned by Fiat SpA
Jaguar, Volvo are owned by Ford
Land Rover, Cooper are owner by BMW
Audi owns Lamborghini (was owned by Chrysler)
VW owns Bentley
GM owns SAAB

[MY83SC]

Ditto to Jack's comment.........Let Volkswagon do the SUV's...etc....and let Porsche get back to TRACK duty.......

[Bill Douglas]

Scary stuff, the Mob own Italy, Italy owns Fiat, Fiat ownes Ferrari...

Honestly guys I was only joking, not the knee caps.

[jazzbass]

Check out this link. Its a good run down of who owns who currently. Especially good is how they mention Porsche does a lot of work for/with VW, but they are a seperate company. Seems Ford now owns Land Rover, not BMW. Learn something new everyday.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Porsche does a huge amount of engineering work for other companies--they designed the engines for everything from Harley's newest V-twin to the new Hyundai (as I remember). They've designed Mercedes engines all the way back to, and probably before, the original five-cylinder diesel and done work for Detroit as well. some of it they refuse to talk about.

Outside engineering contracts are one of their major profit centers.

Whether or not the Boxster "saved the company," one of the intereesting thigns about it is that the percentage of profit that Porsche makes off each Boxster unit--percentage, not dollars--is way lower than the percentage of profit on each 911. Which says to me that the Box is a bargain.

Stephan

[Wrecked944]

Screw it. Can you buy Porsche shares on the Street? Let's pool our resources and BUY the G**D*****d company once and for all. I'm sick and tired of all of this declining quality SUV crap. We'll make Wayne head of the Parts Division, John Walker can run the Service Division, Jack O can head the Special Wishes Department and Warren can run the *new* Early S Restoration Center. Fill in the rest of the corporate org chart as you see fit. Let's get this ball rolling !!



EDIT: Okay, the ticker symbol for Porsche is PSEPF. It is available on the OTC market for $507.36 as of Friday close. A bargain at half the price !!

[CarreraS2]

The low priced VW Golf engined Cayenne is going to do wonders for the Porsche name.

5005 lbs, 0-60 in 9.7 seconds (whew, broke that 10 second barrier), 15 mpg.

Fat, slow, inefficient, AND ugly! Now THERE's a Porsche!

I do agree with Jack and others - for a lot of reasons, Porsche would be better off being bought by the right large company, like VW. Among other things, there is no one at Porsche running the company who is indispensible, like was the situation 30 years ago.

[Wayne 962]

Originally posted by JanusCole
EDIT: Okay, the ticker symbol for Porsche is PSEPF. It is available on the OTC market for $507.36 as of Friday close. A bargain at half the price !!

Hmm, I would rephrase to say "A bargain at half that price..."

I think that BMW was the other manufacturer to post record sales increases and profit for last year.

-Wayne

[c_fahlen]

hmmm... Be careful what you wish for. I'm not sure what Porsche would benefit if they were bought by a larger company... Look only what happend to Saab after GM took over.
To start with the quality of the Saabs are now just a shadow of what it used to be. The only thing that is saab in the new SUV's 9-2x and 9-7x are the logotype in the steering wheel.

I prefere to know that the parts in a Porsche are made for this car and this car only. Not a compromise so it also fits a VW Polo, Mazda MX5 etc...

Just my humble opinion...

[tsuter]

Hows your German language skills boys and girls?

http://www.finanztreff.de/ftreff/kurse_einzelkurs_uebersicht.htm?u=0&k=0&s=693773

[jyl]

From the link given in a prior post, with my comments in [brackets]:

BMW:
-Mini
-Rolls Royce [BMW and VW both tussled over Rolls Royce, VW won and bought the assets, factories, etc, and then learned the name "Rolls-Royce" belonged to Rolls Royce the jet engine company who had sold it to BMW. So BMW got the right to make and sell "Rolls Royce" motorcars while VW got a bunch of old factories. I've always wondered why senior VW management didn't pay with their heads - VW was the laughingstock of the auto industry.]

DaimlerChrysler:
-Chrysler
-Dodge
-Eagle (brand discontinued)
-Hyundai (DaimlerChrysler only owns a percentage)
-Jeep
-Maybach
-Mercedes-Benz
-Mitsubishi (DaimlerChrysler only owns a percentage)
-Plymouth
-[Daimler's purchase of Chrysler must be one of the biggest and stupidest deals in auto industry history. After years of turmoil and red ink, Chrysler is still the weakest of the US nameplates and what benefit this has brought to Daimler is difficult to see.]

Fiat:
-Ferrari
-Maserati
-[I'm pretty sure Fiat owns Alfa-Romeo and Lancia, and maybe another lesser Italian make too. Fiat Auto is a financial mess but it is only part of the Fiat empire.]

Ford:
-Aston Martin
-Jaguar
-Land Rover (recently bought from BMW)
-Lincoln
-Mazda (Ford only owns a percentage)
-Mercury
-Volvo cars
-[Ford went on a run of buying luxury brands, and stuck them all together, along with Lincoln, in something called "Prestige Automotive Group" headquartered in SoCal. Jaguar has not been too successful, but Volvo and Land Rover has done alright, and the thing has worked out better than GM's purchase of Saab.]
-[Oh, I also think Ford owns a large stake in Mitsubishi.]

General Motors:
-Buick
-Cadillac
-Chevrolet
-Daewoo
-GMC
-Hummer
-Isuzu (GM only owns a percentage)
-Oldsmobile (brand discontinued)
-Pontiac
-Saab
-Saturn
-Subaru (GM only owns a big percentage)
-Suzuki (GM only owns a small percentage)
-[GM owns a sizeable bit of Fiat too, and I think there's some possibility that GM might choose, or be forced, to buy more.]

Honda:
-Acura

Hyundai:
-Kia

Nissan:
-Infiniti

Porsche:
-They do a lot of work with VW but Porsche remains its own company

Renault:
-Nissan (Renault owns a percentage) [Renault pretty much runs Nissan, despite being only a part owner.]

Toyota:
-Lexus
-Scion

Volkswagen:
-Audi
-Bentley
-Bugatti
-Lamborghini
-[also Seat (a Spanish make) and Skoda (a Czech make). Supposedly the VW/Skoda/Seats share enough that you can think of a Skoda as the bargain-hunter's VW.]

[Peugeot and Citroen: hey, let's not forget the other Gallic brands! Peugeot is an independent company, I'm not so sure about Citroen - they might be owned by Peugeot.]

[I'm unclear about the minor British makes. Rover is independent, if it's not on bankruptcy's door, anyway. Is Lotus still independent?] _

[cegerer]

"5005 lbs, 0-60 in 9.7 seconds (whew, broke that 10 second barrier), 15 mpg."

Ahhh, those numbers are for the not-available-in-the-US manual gearbox V6-Poser-Cayenne. The US version with Tip may actually break the elusive 10 second barrier ........ I have no problem with the SUV (obviously, I suppose) or even the rumored sedan, but under one condition: Any vehicle Porsche builds MUST be at the very top of it's class in performance!!! As far as a VW buyout, I can't help but think of the Ford-Jaguars running around that I confuse with the Taurus!!!

[Embs]

Originally posted by JackOlsen
Porsche may one day be owned by Volkswagen, and I'll maybe irritate some by saying that I think this would allow Porsche to focus on its core strengths much more -- and leave the non-sports-car models to its parent division.

If that's what VW would allow the Porsche staff to do. On the other hand if they sell the name like penny candy and start re-badging a bunch of Mexican assembled economy boxes, it could spell the end of a very unique company.

[Jim Garfield]

Formerly Steve - the fact that Porsche has done engine design or development work for Hyundai makes me think that maybe they had a reciprocal agreement that Hyundai would loan Porsche the designers of the Santa Fe to work on the Cayenne... suddenly the design makes sense!

[lateapex911]

Ownership by a larger firm is needed these days when you're a small fish. The increased government regulationshave driven the costs of doing business so far up that many firms could not survive without utilizing the resources of a benevolent parent.

Lambo, the Mini, and Ferrari come right to mind.

Porsche is different, as it sits at the edge of the "big" firm line, and is able to attain the required technology to complete it's outside contract work.

I think that they are known for their average profits per unit, but that's when they sell units. If they hade a moderate downturn with their previous lineup, it could have been disaster. According to Schwab, the "Boxster saved Porsche". I presume that he also refers to the economies of scale the two model line offered, making the 911 much cheaper to produce.

The key to success, no surprise, seems to be the ability of the parent to be benevolent, and allow the firm to continue doing what made it famous.

[jluetjen]

I believe that the Porsche stock that is for sale is Prefered stock, not common stock. I believe that the majority (51%?) of the common voting stock is owned by a Porsche/Pieche family trust. That being said I haven't read a perspectus which is the first document to check out.

Here's where you can read their annual report.

Per page 23 of the company report...

"All the common stock is owned by the Porsche and Piech families and the proportions of shares owned are published as required by share trading legislation. This recommendation will not be followed, as it is not appropriate to the situation at Porsche."