Repro'ing Fuchs

dvkk · 02-03-2004, 09:02 PM

A local parts supplier wants to reproduce the 6x15 Fuchs. I heard they were looking for an American Eagle repro wheel to copy, so I called them up to find out why not copy the real deal. I have almost convinced them to copy an early deep 6 instead. Tomorrow I am going to take one over to show them. Part of the reason they are willing to consider doing the deep 6 over a late 6 is that maybe the Pcar guys would also buy them as well as the VW crowd.

The foundry and machine shop they use is located in England, so we are not dealing with some Tiawan or China POC. I have seen other design wheels from this company and they are indeed of high quality. Estimated cost per wheel is around $180 (my est, not theirs based on the other wheels they sell)

I think its a given that this wheel would include safety bead humps, and be machined to take the smaller more common valve stem. Any other features needed?

My question here is:
Would anyone here ever consider buying repro deep 6s for their early 911?

If this goes off, they are very interested in doing other size Fuchs.

chuckw951 · 02-04-2004, 02:39 AM

I'm in the market for a set of 6X15 fuch wheels, but what I really think we need is a set of good replica 7x15 911R wheels. Seems like those would sell very well.

Reg · 02-04-2004, 03:51 AM

4 1/2" x 15"'s seem to get big $$$$$ these days.

Would they be forged and anodized? I saw an ad in a carmag showing new Centerline Forged wheels at $190 each.

jmz · jmz's Garage

7R would be the way to go.

Elombard · 02-04-2004, 06:39 AM

Man if they could do 16x8 (951) offset and 16x9 for ~$200 a piece and they looked sorta good and were not hugely heavy I would think they would sell well.

dvkk · 02-04-2004, 10:59 AM

The wheels would be cast with the spokes and rim polished. Once the background was painted black, the whole thing would be clearcoated. They might request the wheel be fully polished then clearcoated.

The 4.5x15 is the second wheel on their list. I am also going to take them a 7R wheel, but since they are aimed at the VW market, I don't know what they will think. I was also thinking that there would be a market for some kind of 17" or 18" Fuchs that would clear the brakes of a 993 or ??

chuckw951 · 02-04-2004, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dvkk
I am also going to take them a 7R wheel, but since they are aimed at the VW market, I don't know what they will think.

I think you should let them know how much a set of original 7R wheels sell for and why they are desirable by us early 911 folks...IMHO there would be a market. Heck they might even fit on a bug right?

RickM · RickM's Garage

What type of certifications will be done? Any DOT or TUV type guidelines there in the UK?

Also, I'd be curious as to their QC and QC process.

dvkk · 02-04-2004, 11:35 AM

Rick, I will look at the existing wheels from the same foundry to see what they have. I assume DOT standards are met.

The early VWs built up to 68 can easily fit 7" Fuchs, or 8s with smallish tires. But on any Bug built after 69, the only thing that will fit is a 6. Like early 911s, I have seen 7s on late cars with small tires like 205/60s, but what's the point of getting 7s when you can't go with a larger tire. The issue of larger tires is not as much a concern for the VW guys since they don't typically have enough hp to blow off the tires. My calculations show that a 7R and a 225/50 will easily fit any 69 or later Bug.

Scott Clarke · Scott Clarke's Garage

I'd be interested in 7R wheels. It seems to me that deep 6's are just not that rare or expensive. I guess everthing's relative! Quality would need to be high.

RickM · RickM's Garage

dv,
Hopefully they are also TUV appoved as it is much more thourough and safety oriented to become certified.

Tim Walsh · Tim Walsh's Garage

My concern would be if they're forged or not. The first fuchs were forged and therefore MUCH stronger than the replicas. The design of the fuchs took the forging process into consiteration and therefor if you cast a fuch they tend to break

RickM · RickM's Garage

And to add....all forging is not done equally.

dvkk · 02-04-2004, 12:22 PM

Tim, I can absolutely guarantee these repros will NOT be forged. They will be cast just like many other wheels in existance. I think everyone knows that a forged wheel is superior, but the tooling cost makes it prohibitive for small runs of wheels.

Scott, They are constantly getting requests for 6s from the VW crowd, so they know they have the necessary demand to warrant the project. From what I've seen on the other wheels, the quality will be higher than the ones made by American Eagle.

Randy Webb · 02-04-2004, 04:17 PM

"The wheels would be cast ..."

That is all I need to hear -- I'm not interested. They will be heavier and weaker. Why would I buy one when the Fuchs is so superior?

Reg · 02-04-2004, 04:55 PM

Would an old used Fuchs wheel be as safe as a new , well made cast wheel? The age factor has to come to play at some point, right?

Cast wheels should be fine for everyday road use as most cars today come with cast wheels.

real550A · real550A's Garage

On my 9" Fuchs, the fox appears to be smiling. Will these wheels look like that? Oh, never mind, that's just my reflection!

catuck · catuck's Garage

I don't think there is really much of a market for cast Fuchs for Porsches. Perhaps VW's and others. Cast Fuchs are already available in many sizes through various suppliers. I had a set for a while and had a lot of trouble unloading them. Just my opinion, but I wouldn't buy them.

Cornpanzer · 02-04-2004, 06:01 PM

I have to agree. The VW market would probably like them......but only for the rear. The Porsche guys would look down on them.

dvkk · 02-04-2004, 07:13 PM

I've shown them the wheels. Their first statement was that a late 6 would be easier to cast since its not as deep where the spoke meets the rim. I stressed that the early 6 is the way to go. They agreed that the early 4.5 is the next one on the list. I pointed out that even the VW guys know the difference between early and lates, and that a car would look odd with early 4.5s up front and late 6 in the rear. I don't know which 6 they will pick at this time.
They were also very interested in the 7R, however they doubted their success at selling a wheel to a market they are not presently involved in. He told me it takes an order of 500 wheels before the foundry will lift a finger. They are absolutely certain that any 6 they do will sell well. The 4.5s will also sell, but the most any customer would buy is 2 wheels, while there are guys that will buy 4 of their 6s. I'm certain that if the 4.5 meets their expectations, they would do a 7R.
I also carefully inspected their existing wheels. They are DOT approved and also meet the JWL standard seen on many Japanese wheels. They are not TÜV approved. The wheels would come two ways, fully polished then clearcoated, and also painted the way Fuchs did with polished spokes and rims. The black will be very shiny black powdercoat, then the entire wheel completely clearcoated.