Rust experts, is this structural?

tangerine69s · 12:56 AM

Hello,

can you tell me if this is rust is structural or can be cosmetically repaired?

Thanks

Josep
1968 911L soft window targa
1970 911T coupe

JNadal · JNadal's Garage

hit a bump in the road and your suspension will probably go through the car.

76911S · 08-02-2004, 05:09 AM

My guess is there is going to be a bit more than you can see there. There is really no such thing as cosmetic rust when it has gone all the way thru.

Groesbeck Hurricane · 08-02-2004, 05:11 AM

Is this yours or a vehicle you are considering?

tangerine69s · 08-02-2004, 05:30 AM

It's not mine yet but I will probably buy it. The seller has told me is not structural but I will ask for a photo of the suspension pan.

Thanks

Josep
1968 911L soft window targa
1970 911T coupe

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

That's about as structural as you can get.

svandamme · svandamme's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeremy964
That's about as structural as you can get.

it'll buff out though

lateapex911 · 08-02-2004, 05:48 AM

Tip of the iceberg. There is a lot more. Go over that car with a fine tooth comb, and be prepared to play hardball on the purchase price, as it will be very expensive to rectify all the issues. There are lots of areas that aren't that easy to see that ARE important that rust will destroy, like the batt boxes, the fender joining panels, the rocker and sub rocker, the door post and its internal supports, not to mention around the T bars and other susp pick up points.

If this is a car you are buying long distance, you need an independant inspection (PPI), or a phenominal price to make it worth the risk.

Now, having said all that, I could be wrong, and that could be the only spot on the car with issues....but......better safe than sorry. To me it's a big yellow flag, and to others it might be red.

Good luck, move carefully.

ErVikingo · 08-02-2004, 05:58 AM

Josep,

Been there before. I wouldn't buy unless the price is SUPERB. IMHO, if you have rust in tat area, most certainly the bolt area of the suspension pan is toast also. If I interpret the pic ocrrectly, this is the left battery box area so my suspicion of suspension pan rust is pretty accurate.

You will want to check the usual suspect areas plus the area just forward of the door jamb where the fenders bolt in. I found rust in my last car there only after removing the fenders as it was nicely covered with Klagg and years of dirt (which probably accelerated the oxidation process).

In my experience, look at the battery boxes, suspension pan, jack points, door jambs/longitudinals, lower corners of windshield and rear screen.

Hope this helps, Juan

david.avery · david.avery's Garage

Seeing rust pics like this remind me of the 71E, 73T I had that both were converted into "fred flintstone" like operation. Longs gone, front susp pan gone, torsion tube, windshield posts.

I remember getting quarter cuts from oklahoma foreighn weekly

I still get nauseous looking at stuff like that... Thought I love the look of the pre 74 cars, I must go galvanized, or backdate an SC/Carrera!

dtw · 08-02-2004, 06:51 AM

Not sure where the 'structural' comments are coming from. The photo you show is of the leading edge of the fender mounting flange, where it joins with the nose. Certainly not structural, and absolutely unrelated to the suspension pan, but definitely something that needs to be repaired. I interpret 'structural' to mean a component or area that contributes to the strength/integrity of the chassis/suspension.

As others have mentioned, if there is rust here, there IS probably more elsewhere. If you are not familiar with all the places to look for rust on an early 911, it is in your best interest to take the car to someone who is, prior to purchase. Where are you located?

tangerine69s · 08-02-2004, 08:01 AM

I'm quite familiar with typical rust places but this one was quite new for me.

I have 2 911's and taking a look there don't seem to specially mean rust to be translated to suspension pan but I wanted to hear other opinions.

There's other rust in the car, in the base of the driver's side targa bar and a small hole in the driver's floor panel that was repaired in the past.

The car will be a project car, something that I want to do in my spare time without any hurries or stress.

Josep
1968 911L soft window targa
1970 911T coupe

dtw · 08-02-2004, 08:11 AM

Agreed, rot in the fender flanges has nothing to do with front pan. Incidentally, there are repair pieces available for this - Check out www.restoration-design.com, it's #32 I believe in the 911 section.

The rust in the base of the Targa bar section sounds scary - that IS structural to the roll bar and is extremely difficult to repair. It's also one of those "tip of the iceberg" situations.

Chuck Moreland · 08-02-2004, 08:41 AM

That is not structural.

That area can be repaired, I've done it. But it is difficult because several peices come together.

As above, that rust is a red flag to inspect verycarefully for more.

JNadal · JNadal's Garage

If the car is sitting there or getting towed - no big deal, but it looks like the rust would have gone through the suspension pan - NOT driveable.
It also looks like the area has been repaired before, if so, there might be other issues; if someone (with at least an average IQ) took time to restore that area, but didnt do anything to protect it, Id be wondering what else is wrong with the car. Youll probably need to be prepared to pay more for parts than what you pay for the car.
How much is he asking for it?

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

Because the area is rarely rusted, you may be able to pick up a patch panel from a front tub to fix it.

As others have said, the issue is not that spot as much as it is what that spot implies for more critical areas of the car.

This better be a bargain car!

tangerine69s · 08-02-2004, 09:57 AM

Hi,

it's a matching numbers 1970 911E, I will pay $3900. Needs new paint, rust here, few bubles in the base of the targa bar, not rusted though yet, targa top needs recovering ... but seems a good solid base.

In the past other 911s I have owned have had some rust work also, nothing serious. In my experience, rust is important to avoid purchase but only if it's in vital places.

Josep
1968 911L soft window targa
1970 911T coupe

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

Ok, I must be missing something here - I thought I understood where the picture was taken - Maybe just my lack of knowledge of early cars - But isn't this structural? There is a crack in the metal that would indicate some sort of torsional flexing... No?

Please excuse my ignorance - as usual I learn something everday from this board...

Chuck Moreland · 08-02-2004, 10:16 AM

I think the close scale of the picture is confusing some of the posters above. That is not the pan, you can not even see the pan or the battery box.

That is the latch plate for the hood.

dtw · 08-02-2004, 11:45 AM

I must be on everyone's ignore list or something.

As stated above, there are panels ready to go to replace this area. Sounds like you know your way around a 911. Good luck with this project, if the rust is indeed as confined as you mentioned, it sounds like a worthwhile project. How is the front pan and longitudinals?