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I used to work on my big-block `67 Chevelle Supersport back in the 70's but I've not done any major work in the last 20 years besides oil, plugs, alternator... I've been reading this board for the last few months and have already learned a wealth on knowledge. I'm a little reluctant to jump in because "opps" is pretty expensive on the P-car.
I bought the `87 3.2 back last fall. Low miles (35k), excellent documentation and history. The valves were done (the diagnosis was bad valve guides) by a very well known Porsche wrench a few days before I bought it (500 miles away). I've put about 1900 miles on it and only added about 1/2 qt of oil. I was concerned that when I start it, I get white (lt grey?) smoke for about 1.5-2 minutes and then it runs fine. No smoke when running and runs fine. The idle stays at about 800 but it is a little erratic (idles fine, drops a second, runs fine...) The car runs great! Very powerful and smooth at all RPM except idle. I decided it was time to learn how to care for baby so I took out the plugs. Concern: all of them were beautifully lite grey except #1 which was grey but bumpy grey deposits on the electrode (sorry no camera to show a pic). It wasn't totally covered but the buildup was on all sides. It was hard and didn't rub off but scraped off with a knife edge. (Side note: All of them gapped at 65 mm but #4 was gapped at 70 (?). No issues with the insulator tip. The plug wires look original and show cracks (prob from age). As best as I can remember, the smoke has always been whitish and it did it since the day I bought the car. So wassup? I can't imagine there being a problem with pinging or heat on only one cylinder. I use 92-3 octane since I added "the chip" in there. Is the idle, smoke and the buildup connected? What should I check first. I know I probably need wires anyway. Anything else I should check?
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-------------------------------------- Joe See Porsche run. Run, Porsche, Run: `87 911 Carrera |
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Joe,
White smoke = condensation = Normal = DON'T WORRY!! Cheers, Tim.
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1984 Carrera - 3.6 Conversion, 326bhp, 1020kg - SOLD 1987 930 - SOLD 1983 911 SC Targa - SOLD http://forums.pelicanparts.com/impactbumpers.com - Classic 911's and nothing else |
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2 minutes worth?
What about grey buildup on one plug? anyone?
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-------------------------------------- Joe See Porsche run. Run, Porsche, Run: `87 911 Carrera |
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Join Date: Oct 2001
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Hmm, Because of the unusually low miles on the car I would run some Techron through the thing and a full tank of gas or two (thinking about the somewhat erratic idle).
About the smoke, some cars smoke white condensation at startup for quite some time especially in the winter, so this is possible. 911's are also known for a puff of smoke when you first start, but I think that particular phenomenon is usually burned off in the first few secs (like 5 or so), and is generally a pretty big cloud of smoke unlike the condensation smoke which is not a big cloud. Some of the stuff that I have seen on the board thinks that the occasional puff on startup is from oil in the crankcase seeping past the rings into the combustion chambers (since the engine is horizontally opposed). A half a quart of oil in 1900 miles would indicate to me that you probably don't have a problem, 2 minutes of oil smoke on startup would probably have lost more than a half a quart in 1900 miles. It's hard to say without seeing the smoke (does it have a smell or bother your eyes), but my vote is that it is probably condensation and harmless.
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Steve '08 Boxster RS60 Spyder #0099/1960 - never named a car before, but this is Charlotte. '88 targa ![]() |
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Mine probably spits and sputters and smokes for more than five minutes, especially with it being cold. If I put my hand in the path of the exhaust for long, it's soaked, and there's usually a puddle on the floor. Don't sweat it. As far as the plugs, the Haynes manual has a spark plug conditon guide, and I'm looking at it right now, none of them really match your description.
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‘07 Mazda RX8-8 Past: 911T, 911SC, Carrera, 951s, 955, 996s, 987s, 986s, 997s, BMW 5x, C36, C63, XJR, S8, Maserati Coupe, GT500, etc |
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About the plug, it's hard to say without seeing it. If I had to offer a guess and conjecture about the buildup I would say that possibly due to the lack of being driven the injector on #1 is clogged, that cylinder is running lean and the gray bumps are bits of you cylinders, pistons or heads from detonation, but that is purely a guess, I wouldn't panic. Like I said run a bottle or even a couple of bottles of Techron through the thing and run it dry and see if things improve, try to get a picture of the weird plug, and check it from time to time.
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Steve '08 Boxster RS60 Spyder #0099/1960 - never named a car before, but this is Charlotte. '88 targa ![]() |
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OK. Thanks for the suggestions. I thought that if there was an oil problem I'd see it in the oil usage. Masraum: you said the bumps could be bits of the cylinder, piston... that can't be good.
It wasn't massive. I'll try the techtron (already have a bottle and use it on the 3 daily drivers in the household). Could a bad plug wire cause a problem? (No sparks while running in the dark). I thought I've read spraying something on the wires. Any help there? What about the erratic idle: 800 for about 10 seconds, then drops to 600 and sounds like its going to die and then comes back to 800. At startup is stays rock solid at about 1000-1100 for about a minute (per the programing on the chip) and then start doing the up and down thing. Any help there?
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-------------------------------------- Joe See Porsche run. Run, Porsche, Run: `87 911 Carrera |
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The idle problem is likely a bad ISV, do a search, its been discussed to death here. Carrera idle is a sore spot. If you're lucky, it can just be cleaned.
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Greg Lepore 85 Targa 05 Ducati 749s (wrecked, stupidly) 2000 K1200rs (gone, due to above) 05 ST3s (unfinished business) |
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Hmm, if you have a chip that could be some of the idle. The plug thing was a worst case scenario. From what I understand some people will look at their plugs under a really strong magnifying glass. Maybe then you can determine if it looks like metal on your electrode or just gunk from the gas. It's probably nothing, like I said, worst case scenario, I should have said that earlier. I was at work and trying to do too many things at once.
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Steve '08 Boxster RS60 Spyder #0099/1960 - never named a car before, but this is Charlotte. '88 targa ![]() |
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OK, Techtron in in the tank. A few questions:
1) Is the Idle Control Valve what some folks refer to the ISV? I found a post on it. What do I use to jumper the Idle Control Valve? Can I use a plain electrical wire? Is it OK to hold it? 2) I like the stock look. Putting aside that, are there any MAJOR reasons to replace the wires with anything else besides stock? I know that new wires certainly can't hurt. 3) I found minor buildup of deposits on the contacts inside the cap and on the end of the rotor. Replacement? (I cleaned them off). Other than unstable idle the car runs like a scalded dog. TIA for helping an old dog remember the tricks he used to know.
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-------------------------------------- Joe See Porsche run. Run, Porsche, Run: `87 911 Carrera |
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don't forget to change the oil when the tank with techron is empty.
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#2 Stock is fine. For what its worth, I gave away my Magnecores and went back to stock. -Chris
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Chris-curious as to why you ditched the Magnecor's-did a quick search and didn't find anything.
If Wayne is listening, I have to admit to being disloyal. As much as I'd prefer to give Pelican 100% of my parts biz, a recent search for Magnecor prices found at least 2 sources that were almost 30% less than Pelican's price. While I'd be willing to pay extra just to support the forum, 60 bucks more on wires seemed a bit much. We'll see what the customer service is like from these other outfits, but just thought I'd let you know.
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Greg Lepore 85 Targa 05 Ducati 749s (wrecked, stupidly) 2000 K1200rs (gone, due to above) 05 ST3s (unfinished business) |
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Harry 1970 VW Sunroof Bus - "The Magic Bus" 1971 Jaguar XKE 2+2 V12 Coupe - {insert name here} 1973.5 911T Targa - "Smokey" 2020 MB E350 4Matic |
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Oil was just changed recently. Is it really that important to change after Techtron?
Also, what is the difference between "Genuine Porsche Ignition Wires" and "OEM Ignition Wire Set, 911 Carrera (1985-89)" ? Are the OEM wires "Beru"? There is a major difference in price between OEM and Magnacore. Wassup with that?
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-------------------------------------- Joe See Porsche run. Run, Porsche, Run: `87 911 Carrera |
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The OEM wires are Beru. They have a unique connector on the plug end that contains a resistor for r/f suppression. They are "failure prone"-in quotes because numerous people have over 100k on them w/ no issues, but they can be the source of mysterious ignition issues. They are expensive. No idea about the Techron issue.
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Greg Lepore 85 Targa 05 Ducati 749s (wrecked, stupidly) 2000 K1200rs (gone, due to above) 05 ST3s (unfinished business) |
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