A 500HP 4door Porsche? Real or fake?

[svandamme]

Building an SUV and a sedan, doesn't seem to have "tarnished" BMW's reputation. They even build a station wagon.

BMW has never had the same status as Porsche did

BMW was about luxury
Porsche was about performance

everything becomes very vague these days when companies like KIA and what not are starting to turn out luxury cars, BMW is doing Mini's , Porsche is doing SUV's... all we need now is Ferrari starting to produce 18wheel trucks

[Mr9146]

Kill me.

[kstar]

Originally posted by osidak
. . . Now as for the sedan I would have much rather seen it over the SUV but this car is just UGLY. The MB E55 and BMW M5 will eat its lunch. . .

Ugly is certainly subjective, so I have no argument with your opinion on its looks.

But, what leads you to believe a potential Porsche sedan would have its "lunch eaten" by an M5 or E55?

If past is prologue, my opinion is that such a Porsche sedan will handily outperform competition like the M5 or E55 just as the Cayenne handily ourperforms every SUV in its class. I think Porsche desires to make the highest performance vehicles in any/every class it competes.

BR,

Kurt

[Danskman]

Originally posted by Mr9146


Kill me.

If someone follows through on your request... can I have your car?

[kjb]

Originally posted by targa911S
A Porsche motor home. I could be a high speed vagabond. I think i like that.

There was a BMW motor home built in limited numbers around 1986. It wasn't much of a high-speed cruiser though.

/ J

[kjb]

So how many of you have seen one of these before?

[911ctS]

All I EXPECT from Porsche is to build, and RACE a state of the art, uncompromising vehicle that competes with the best of the best. Just as they have done in past years.
Dont get me wrong, the GT3 RSR is the dope $h!t, but it just isn't a GT1, or what the GT1 should have been over the last few years.
Well i agree with money perspective, they should be concerned about money for that is what gives them the backing for racing.

To make it simple... If I was in charge, I would rather make a bit less per year and have a Le Mans victory to floss.

[svandamme]

Damn, genius! I need a job at Porsche product development!

kill that post before they see it and start getting funny ideas in Stuttgart

[kstar]

Originally posted by SoCal911SC
If they really want volume and money, they really need a GTI/Honda Civic Si killer. Smoke all of them GTI's and Civics, charge $28K for a Hatchback (use mostly VW parts, including the VW engine out of the Cayenne). Stick a Porsche badge up front, sell 60,000 units per year, huge profits!

Damn, genius! I need a job at Porsche product development!

Hasn't this forum in general shown a desire for Porsche to build a lightweight, simple and stripped down car at a reasonable price?

I do think that is a good idea.

BR,

Kurt

[svandamme]

true, but not a hatchback 4 seater thing

[osidak]

Why do I think MB or BMW will eat their lunch. Well for one both of those companies have been building sport sedan for a long time and here are the stats of the E55 vs. 996

E55 MSRP $80,700
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/mercedesbenz/e55amg/index.html?tid=edmunds.n.mmindex.content.num8.0.me rcedesbenz*

Weight 4087 lbs
HP 469 hp @ 6100 rpm
Torque 516 ftlbs @ 2650 rpm
weight to power 7.92 to 1

Car & Driver puts the E55's 0 to 60 at 4.3 seconds and 0 to 100 in 9.9 seconds.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=6567&page_number=3

996 C2 40th Anniversary MSRP $89,800
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/porsche/911/100371708/prices.html?tid=edmunds.n.mipmake.pricetable.num6. 1.porsche*

Weight 3020 lbs
HP 320 (not listed so I am going off memory)
Torque 274 @ 4800 rpm
weight to power 11.02 to 1

Autoweek claims a 5 second 0 to 60 for the 996
http://www.autoweek.com/search/search_display.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&content_code=06118769&Search_Type=STD&Search_ID=1925426&record=1

Can't find any skid pad numbers for either right this moment but I would image the 996 would be on top. The point of this is the MB bests Porsche top of the line (in the same price range) Sports car. They are not even competing. I think MB has a version of that engine (5.5 liter V8) that puts out close to 600 HP and massive amounts of torque. If they went head to head I wouldn't be surprised to see MB come out on top.

Yeah Porsche can do it but at what cost and I do not think they will dominate as they have done in the past. Porsche built its reputation by building light weight cars that seemed to do the impossible. Now they build over weight cars that are about on par if not a little bit better than the competition. I love my 911 because it has soul and character. When I exit that car I I have a smile on my face. When I have driven a 996 I think to myself great car but it just doesn't do it for me.

It has been said over and over, Porsche needs to build a light weight car that smokes the competition and keep it affordable. They want volume but they won't do it by building $100K sedans that look like warmed over Caprices.

[norustscott]

what's next... a tank, an electric car...a postal vehicle, an amphibian ... oh, wait. They already did that. It's a business not a club ...

[john70t]

What is "Porsche"? I'll admit I still don't know myself.

The image everyone seems to have is the small, family-owned and operated 60's/70's racing company that was succesful with lightweight rear-engine cars, and so the company developed a following and a legacy.

There have been many, many successful "bastarizations" off the air cooled 356 design (the first starting with the early 911 though the 934 though the first edition GT1) that for the most part have been succesful.

Don't forget the company itself produced the 912, the 914 and the 924 for the "floating wallet" crowd. They didn't compete with the higher models in performance(o.k. mabye the 914 was too successful in A.X.) and allowed the company to sell a lot of product.
Even if the profit margin was thinner per unit, the company model gets exposure, the public gets the perception the brand is more stable and repairable(i.e. parts available P.N.A.!!!!!), and the quick cheap sales fluff the racing budget. All in all the company stayed independant and true to a small-buisness atmosphere where individuals mattered.

All that has changed, mabye out of neccessity.
Before, sharing the same CIS Bosche F.I. with Volvo, Mercs, and VW didn't seem a detriment. Volvo took the practical family market, Merc took the wealthier/older version, VW the ricer/experimental kids, and Porsche the selective/track enthusiast market.

Nowadays, everyone builds anything using any "affiliate". The cars all look the same, and the Hyundai isn't any different from the Mercedes except for the warentee and materials.
Porsche seems to be one of the few brands to keep the same general design (headlights, hood, and rear engine) on it's flagship model.

[svandamme]

all those cars you mention still remain close to the core business of Porsche as it used to be...an SUV or a 4 door saloon doesn't
even the 924 was amazing bang for buck when it was launched. best 2 liter sports car award and so on, the 912 was indeed a budget car with low performance compared to it's 911 brother, but it still didn't look like a coupe deville or whatever.

the general design of the flagship model stayed the same? headlights?? hood? 996 ???

[Texas Turbo]

IMHO Porsche has already gone past the point of no return. If they stopped making water pumpers and SUV's would the purists be happy? Probably. Would the throngs of new customers be happy? Absolutely not.

Porsche has changed and will never be the same. We just have to accept that. I don't mind the change of direction, the 911-993 was an amazing run but it just could not go on forever. Times change, and so do companies. Those of us who love the old cars have invested in them and will hold on to them for many years to come.

I LOVE my 930 but would never drive it every day. (a 993 turbo would be better, but it is still pretty raw compared to modern machines) For me, old 911s are way too rough for daily transportation. (and don't call me "old", I am only 30) The new vehicles are amazing machines... well, except for the six cylinder pepper wagon! I would love to own a couple of them. For example: I'd take a 996 turbo cab and a turbo pepper wagon to compliment my 930.

If I have the means and a BMW ///M5 competitor from Porsche is on the market, I would seriously consider it. There is NOTHING wrong with the ///M cars and I think that it would be great if Porsche competed with more of them. If you have driven one, then you know how special they are. Why shouldn't Porsche get my hard earned dollars for that space in my garage as well?

[cegerer]

Ahhh, hate to burst any bubbles here but trucks really aren't anything new for Porsche .... hell, here's one from the 1930's when Dr. Porsche was designing Auto Unions!

[cegerer]

Although I will admit, Mercedes Benz built the ultimate truck in 1955 .....

[john70t]

(once again, Curt tests a small spray of historical whoop'ass out of the cases and cases).

[sundaypunch]

There aren't many companies out there that can stay profitable selling sportscars. The best move Porsche ever made was to introduce the Cayenne. Where would they be financially right now without it? I wouldn't care if they offered minivans if it keeps them profitable and allows they to stay in business and keep producing sportscars.

I liken it to a some of the horrible movies DeNiro or John Malkovich have appeared in. It pays the bills and allows them to continue doing the more artistic stuff that movie buffs enjoy.

[john70t]

Porsche is still not owned by Pepsi, Beatris, or Ford. May it stay that way.