Installing a MSD on a 82 SC 3.0

[jenior]

Well my original thread was a NO Start/No spark condition..And thanks for everyones help on figuring out what it was..My motor was just rebuilt and the original Bosch unit went out. After shoping it was going to be less money for a new ignition system rather than a rebuilt for more money..Well I went with a new MSD for less..$200.00..model 6A with a Blaster 2 coil from "Summit racing" no tach adapter needed..And let me add Summit's people are very polite and knowledgeable with super fast shipping and low price's..Anyways, I removed my old Bosch unit and coil and mounted the new CD box where the O.G. box was..( ON the aluminum plate). Then I got power at my starter. I ran 12 guage wire from the starter cable( the one thar come's from the battery) and grounded the black to a starter mount bolt..( I am writing this while watching the Laker game) Then ran the wires through the back of the engine into the engine compartment up and over the airfilter to the CD box..Ok, now I didn't want to cut into my O.G harness so I got the trigger signal from the 6 pin plug and also connected my tach and got key switch power..Mounted my coil in the same spot as the O.G. coil. Did not use O.G harness wires for coil connection instead went straight from box to coil. Orange POS black NEG. Connected coil wire. Turned key and she fired right up..Done right?? I wish..LOL..Now next you are going to have to reset timing and maybe idle speed if required like I did..MSD also says to open spark plug gap .010 to .015 in. Well I did that and the motor ran like crap. So I re-gapped the plugs to .035 and she ran better but had a rough idle and missed while holding at 2000 rpm , seemed to clear out at 3000 rpm. Went back and timing was way advanced.. You will see at the 6 pin plug at your dist. trigger wires you have a bear wire and a covered wire..7 and 31d to be exact..The bear wire is POS and covered wire is NEG. Very important..The Violet wire is Pos and the green is NEG on the MSD box. You will notice that if you switch the wires the engine will idle high meaning timing advance.. so you want it to idle lower meaning timing retard where you want it then go back and set timing to where it is supposed to be..Now she runs very smooth and strong.. Make the wiring look nice and your done..
Now people say that the car runs a lot better and more power with the MSD.. I am here to say from experience it runs the same which is OK by me..I hope this helps the next gut install the MSD on there car..Take a look at my engine below...

[bit]

Hi Jenior

One of the first upgrades I did to my 80SC was install an MSD 6AL and Blaster High Vibration Coil. I think it does better than the CD box below 3000rpm, I certanly can feel it on my butt. And also my car starts and idles much easier and better.

By the way, nicely detailed CIS engine compartment. Did you do that yourself too? I like the color scheme. Attached is a pic of mine after I powercoated everything.



Take care dude!

.Steven
1980 911SC

[TerryH]

Two beautiful engine bays, I'm jealous! Glad you got your ingition installed in easy fashion, Jessie. I was looking forward to meeting you today and helping (watching, staying out the way) you install it.

Hopefully we can get together soon. I have a lot of "what does this do?", type questions on my new car. I'll bring the beer.

[Andy Ring]

Quick MSD question regarding using the ballast resistor or not.

Quick history: I've installed an MSD-6AL in my 69 911T and plan on installing one in my 72T soon. In the 69 I used a bosch blue coil which seems to work fine. However, from reading this board, I noticed that people strongly advise using the MSD Blaster coil with MSD CD boxes. So, now I've bought the Blaster and plan to try it in the 69 first. It comes with a ballast resistor for use with cars with points I guess I need to use this, but I've never noticed anyone else talking about it. Anyone have experience with this?

Thanks

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by Andy Ring
It comes with a ballast resistor for use with cars with points Anyone have experience with this?

ballast not necessary w/ MSD box.

[jenior]

Hey steve , I think you got me beet with the powder coating.. Very clean..I have high temp engine paint. The engine builder did it ,Valve covers were painted red and the bottom covers black, I picked the color scheme..It needs touch up..I am probably going to take the fan out and re do it because it wasn't completely smooth before they painted it..Maybe I will chrome it???I still have to mount my AC pump. I need a new condensor..And I guess your right on the off the line power..But it 's not big difference at least for me..As for andy's resister question. I also think you don't need it..I got coil P/N MSD 8202..if that helps..Did someone say beer?? I will call Terry..Thanks

[Nitrometano]

Hey Steven, what brand are those spark plug cables? They look cool.

[Lorenfb]

A TOTAL waste to eliminate an original Bosch CDI from a 911SC.
Now the engine compartment looks as if it's waiting for a Chevy engine conversion.

Bottomline: There's no real data to support the idea that the MSD is any better
than the Bosch unit. You could have bought a rebuilt Bosch from Pelican and
saved a lot of work & headaches, besides the money. Also, the MSD is potentially
less reliable, i.e. remember; failure rate ~ # of components in an electronic unit.

[Lukesportsman]

It shocks me, as many others, that Loren would say that

The whole chip and ignition industry is a hoax!!!!!!!! And yes, I know that he/you know your porsche stuff and can probably fix those Bosch boxes in the sleep.

[Lorenfb]

"The whole chip and ignition industry is a hoax!!!!!!!!"

It's all about marketing. When it comes to real data, who needs that?

And then there's the reality: Porsche/Bosch has/had enough resources (money & talent)
to design fuel & ignition systems which achieve max performance/results.

Please explain: If the MSD design is so great why hasn't ANY OEM car manufacturer
used the CDI design of the MSD. If there is/were a patent and potential, they'd buy
the technology in a nanosecond.

Bottomline: If it makes you feel better, then buy it. But don't try and convince
others without facts;

Example: Ignition System

1. min energy required - 60 to 100 millijoules
2. min spark voltage - 30 - 40KV
3. min spark rise time - 100 - 200 microseconds

Anything more is just a waste and overstresses the ignition system.

[LanceS4803]

This has turned into a very good thread for this newbie!!
I know many Chevy and Ford street/performance engines have gone with MSD, but I guess that doesn't translate to increased perfomance in all engines.

[Lukesportsman]

I know some Mopar fans that swear by their "Chrome" ignitions as the best ever. Amazingly, Daimler didn't continues its use on the new hemi's. I just don't think we can make blanket statements that what was once the best will always be the best. I'm very familiar with MSD boxes being old tech too, but there are many newer digital computer controlled ignitions that might be worth considering. Just for records, I don't have MSD on any of my three race cars, but they aren't stock point ignitions either.

Porsche had lots of technology and still does, but anyone want to argue the performance advantage of them staying with CIS for so long on 930's. There are always compromises and that is why our custom cars aren't necessarily better, just more honed for our purposes than stock 911's.

[RoninLB]

I'd be curious to see what would happen in a comparison of an MSD and a Bosch in a worn, beat up, 911 engine ?

any theories?

[Lukesportsman]

Yes, that is an issue. In ideal situations with ideal A/F ratios, the ignition system isn't taxed heavily. Take a large cam and a set of webers with either an altitude or temperature swing and all of once you've got a challenge. Other things to consider are modifications: does Bosch offer a boost retard function or adjustable rpm limits? I just don't believe its all the placebo effect. Seat of pants can be misleading, but we're not all cattle following the leader. Peak numbers are one issue, but preventing plugs from fouling on non-EFI cars is a real issue.

[bit]

Hi Guys,

Nitrometano, those are standard Magnacore 10mm leads. I called and ordered them directly from them at http://www.magnecor.com/ (cost about $190).

Loren, you can say what you want, but my setup allows me to disconnect my 6AL plug in my Bosch CDI is about 20 seconds. When I first installed my MSD, I was testing and swapping back and forth like crazy! Having the ability to do this allowed me to see a difference. I have my Bosch W5D plugs gapped at .70mm and my MSD Blaster Coil is compatible with both CD Units, and there IS an improvement with the 6AL over the stock CDI (my Bosch CDI is perfectly operational by the way, and it is now my backup for the 6AL). Nothing great, but below 3000 it just seems cleaner/smoother with slightly quicker pickup, starts up quicker, and my car just generally likes it. You could argue that some other part of my car is out of tune and the 6AL may be masking it, I don't care, me and anyone who's driven my car would never believe it is out of tune. So there is a difference.

Oh....and I think that $260 for a new 6AL vs. $367.50 for the Bosch "rebuild" vs a Permatune (for my car it is NLA), it makes the choice simple if you want to swap it becuz....well.....in my case....just becuz.

(The prix above are from our host).

So there is a difference, I can feel it, and I can verifiy it against the original.

(Yes I even tried this with the original coil with same results).

Me likey MSD, and I think it looks cool (purdy colors match my engine).

BUT, I did have a freaky thing happen to my cap and rotor. Rather than compound to this old thread, take a look at what happened at this thread I started;

What the heck happened to my Rotor and Cap?!?


Take care.

.Steven
1980 911SC

[Early_S_Man]

Steven,

You can expect repeat performances of your cap & rotor mishap with the MSD!!!

That is the precise reason MSD sells a brass contact for GM HEI caps ...

Maybe you can adapt the HEI part to your cap ...

[Lorenfb]

Here's the short term results of using a MSD:

What the heck happened to my Rotor and Cap?!?