Turbo engine install in a SC?

[Lensart]

I've been reading every post I can find on this forum on how to get more HP for my '83 SC Cab.

I could really use some advice from you guys on what route you might take.

1. I've found a used turbo engine ($7500) in a local Porsche junkyard, they will warranty it for 30 days. How hard is the swap and what would I need to change ie... clutch, oil coolers, etc. I'd like to end up with 350 + HP, so new turbo, cams, exhaust, bigger intercooler? Whats my 80,000 mile 3.0 (very good engine) worth?

2. Supercharge my engine ($7000) plus the cost of 3.2 p/c's with lower comp. &new cams. Seems easier than turbocharging plus I have some supercharging exp.

3. Use tblitz's cis to efi then turbo or supercharger.

Can I get 350 + HP for less than $9000?

Any other ideas?

Thanks, Randy

[5axis]

Check with RarlyL8 here on pelican and check out his web page. Those who have done it will be your best guide. http://www.geocities.com/rarlyl8/

david 89 turbo cab

[dean]

I put an early 930 motor in my SC. I think it would be hard to get 350 hp for $9000 if you buy a motor for $7500. You still need a clutch. You have to do something to get more fuel (aftermarket pump or 2nd pump. You should address the oil cooling. So you are around $9k already. I am not trying to discourage you but you need to spend more money. I am not a fan of superchargers so I wouldn't go that route.

[HuntForFun]

Best check out your transmission, I don't think the 915 gonna make it under the added torque. I think that you need to swap out to a G50 or pick up the 4 speed that came with the 930 until 87 (I think). You may make the 350 w/ exhaust, chip, air intake and some internal powerplant changes. Sure don't see this happening for 9K though. But I ain't no expert either.

[Lensart]

I guess it depends on what I can get out of my 3.0 if I buy the turbo engine.

I'm a little concerned about buying a used turbo engine, what should I do to freashen it up?

[iamchappy]

Why not turbo the sc engine with cis, you can easily get 350 hp and it can be done for much less than your other options.
911SC Turbo

[Lensart]

I've been reading that thread with interest. I don't have a lot of metal fab. exp., can I buy an ready made exhaust system to bolt the turbo to? I could handel the rest (maybe).

Thanks, Randy

[Lensart]

Best check out your transmission, I don't think the 915 gonna make it under the added torque.

If the transmission is in good shape and I don't mistreat it will it hold?

Thanks, Randy

[RarlyL8]

350hp for under $9000. Hmmmmmm.

Sell the 3.0L = $4000
Now you have $13K to work with.
Used engine $7,500 - balance is $5,500

You don't say what engine you can get for $7,500. Any year 930 Euro is a base 300hp motor. C2T is 320. An extra 50hp is easy with these engines.

For the swap you need:
Clutch - stronger than stock
Fuel Pump - dual or one larger than stock
Cooling - stock. 930s only had a loop. More is optional depending on geography.
Tail - big enough to cover the intercooler
Oil lines - depending on the exhaust system used.

Notice that you will need these parts for a 930 swap OR turbocharging the 3.0L SC engine. It is possible for you do either one for $13K and leave the heavy mods for later. After 350 or so hp the mods and supporting drivetrain components get expensive.

You cannot get 350hp from a Supercharged 3.0L CIS engine for that price.

The 915 will live at 350-400hp if you are mindful of it every time you launch and shift. Let the motor do the work, not the tranny.

Here's what a 3.3T looks like in an SC engine bay. Pretty much a natural.

[Lensart]

Thanks RarlyL8, I've read a lot of your posts and you know the cost involved in Porsche projects.

$13k plus my car (I was offered $17k recently) should buy a real nice 930 turbo. On Ebay they range from about $20k to $30k for the years I'm interested in.

The only trouble is I love cabriolets, and they are closer to $40k.

"You cannot get 350hp from a Supercharged 3.0L CIS engine for that price."

What about a Knoxville Whipple and tblitz kit, p/c to lower comp. and new cams. Then add intercooler and add more boost?


I thought nothing was as expensive as Mercury racing outboards but Porsche stuff comes close!

Thanks, Randy

[adomakin]

sorry to jump the thread but rarly, u said "tail big enought to cover the intercooler". is that just for asthetic reasons? im building a 73 rsr with a 3.3 turbo and im planning on just removing enough of the ducktail to get a custom (ie pretty) intercooler poking out. do you see any probs with that idea?

[RarlyL8]

Nope.
"Tail big enough to cover the intercooler" means just that. A minimalist intercooler requires a small tail. A custom intercooler shoved back behind the fan requires no tail at all. Hell you could remove the deck lid all together and mount a full bay intercooler with a big ricer wing bolted to it for that matter (joke). I've though many times about modifying a duck tail to accept my intercooler. That would change the look of the car dramatically.

Supercharging - the problem is not the expense of the kit but the power level you want. The SOK whipple kit will only get you 260 RELIABLE hp to the rear wheels. That's 306hp at the crank. The extra 50 will cost you a beefy engine rebuild and an intercooler. Big bux.

If I were you (or me with a wayback machine) I'd sell your car and get a 930. There is a LOT more to a 930 than a turbo hanging off a 3.3L engine. Cabs are pricey. You only live once. Start saving now.

[sammyg2]

I think you transposed the words a little, it's ok, I'm dyslexic too. What you meant to say was, "TURBO INSTALL ON A SC ENGINE".
No thanks neccesary, that's what I'm here for

Seriously, I don't really know if I'll ever get to 350 hp, but I'll get to 300 without too much problem from my 3 liter and prolly with a price tag of around $2k (from stock).
If you are handy and like tinkering, it's possible.

[Jim2]

Hi Randy and all, I have to aggree with RarlyL8. First, I'm by no means an authority on turbo applications to 911 motors but I would suggest more consideration given to a buying a 930. Yes, budget may limit you from a cab, but you get upgraded brakes, suspension, trailing arms and a host of other items which may not be considered. Would the appeal of a turbo body replace the cab? - Just a thought.

The 930 is turn key. Throw a couple mild mods at it for 300+ HP, and it will remain reliable.

I'm by no means talking down turbo'd 911s. I relish the accomplishement of puting this kind of project together. I've built many turbo'd imports, but unlike Porsche, with the imports you might as well build your own turbo because the imports are only half there to begin with. Porsche did it right the first time. Though if you enjoy serious tinkering, go for it!

Jim
Project 911 http://www.members.shaw.ca/kremer/930.htm

[Lensart]

"Seriously, I don't really know if I'll ever get to 350 hp, but I'll get to 300 without too much problem from my 3 liter and prolly with a price tag of around $2k (from stock)."

Wow, Hmmmm. 300 HP for around $2000 or 350 for $13000. I think I can live with 300 hp! Do you have the BAE kit? Where could I find one? If I can't find a kit is there anyone that sells a turbo exhaust for the 3.0? Will 3.3 turbo exhaust fit the 3.0?

I think I could handle the rest with you guys help, but I can't weld.

"If I were you (or me with a wayback machine) I'd sell your car and get a 930. There is a LOT more to a 930 than a turbo hanging off a 3.3L engine. Cabs are pricey. You only live once. Start saving now."

Rarly, I love the Porsche Cab it's one of the very few that look good with the top up or down. I've already bought (but not installed 964 brakes). I have installed a B&B exhaust. I'm going to use a fiberglass 3.8 wing and yellowbird front and rear bumpers, a rollbar or cage and Momo Evo's. Lots of money I know. Thats one reason I don't want to spend all of it on the engine.
Thanks all, Randy

[iamchappy]

Randy,
I had to weigh the options when I choose the turbo sc install. I always wanted to have a 914 turbo carrera but a 930 engine conversion was not in the budget. I will have about 3,200 into my project when it is done( hopefully). I started with the bae kit but ended up only using the
silicone intake boots and sections of the intake pipes, and turbo, as I was installing it into my 914. Even after purchasing a Tial Wastegate, Tial Bov, boost controller, MSD btm, Flowmaster muffler, flanges, Stainless steel pipes for the crossover fabrication, silicone tubes, pressure switch and CSV for enrichment, and hoses and fittings it is still very inexpensive considering my engine has the potential of 300 plus hp.
Shop around If you can pickup a used Bae kit and run it as is you may be surprised at how much fun your car can be on the cheap. SammyG, Rfng, Tsuter, and others on the sc turbo forum seem to be having a lot of fun with it, they sold me on the idea.
Good luck.

[Lensart]

iamchappy, your car is looking great!

Where would I look for a BAE kit? Does the 3.3 turbos exhaust work on a 3.0 and do I even need the kit at all?

I'm still thinking about converting to EFI and then the turbo. or supercharger if I can't find an exhaust source.

Thanks, Randy

[iamchappy]

Randy, check with Rfng he has been developing a kit to sell. All you really need from the bae kit is the silicone intake boots everything else you can easily put together.
The crossover pipe and exhaust would need to be fabricated. If I had to do it over again I would of only needed the intake boots and maybe I would of been able to fashion up some.

[RarlyL8]

The difference between 300hp and 350hp is much more than 50hp.
You cross a threshold of reliability longevity and cost that is exponential.

There are many a 930 garage with complete CIS and exhaust systems packed away in boxes. These cars may be the most often modded exotics on the planet. Both the 930 CIS and the turbo exhaust will bolt onto a 3.0L engine leaving only the turbo oil lines and pump to be added. Another route would be to purchase a Euro 930 exhaust (around $500) and use kit components from the turbo to the existing SC CIS. The more stock components you use the less fab work. I doubt it can be done for less than $3000 unless you can do all the work yourself. Components alone are expensive. Labor puts you over the top. Nothing compared to the cost of 930 conversions or some of the other options listed.
This IS the least expensive way to go, just don't cross that 300hp line.

[jstgermaine]

OK, I want to play to...here's what I have compiled thus far:

79 Euro SC case, crank, heads, cams, etc. (freebie from one of our parts cars)

Turbo CIS, K27, Tial Wastegate & BOV, oil lines, oil pump & fuel pumps ($1700)
GHL 930 Exhaust ($250)
C2 Intercooler ($100)
98mm Andial Big Bore Turbo P/C 8.1:1 cr ($600)
Everything will be buttoned up with ARP hardware.

Still need to figure out what headers/exchangers I want as well as boost controller, etc.

What kind of HP you think I am going to hit?