It Fires...with a little help! Fuel Line Question

andycook · andycook's Garage

OK, after many choice words, and some tools growing wings...I discovered my car if fact is NOT getting fuel. It has fuel at the injectorlines, but the plugs remain dry after MUCH cranking. Fuel pump comes on and stays on. I bled it per the manual many times and the injectors whine.
I poured raw fuel into the throttle body (?) , and the car started right up and ran until the gas was gone. I think I have the fuel lines screwed up. I still have the 78SC accumilator in it, as well as the 78 fuel pump, I hooked up what I thought to be the main supply line, and the return line, but I think I must have something backwards. I have nothing connected to the bottom of the accumilator at all.
The motor is a 74 2.7, in a 78 SC. I have finally got the wiring right I think, thanks to many Pelcanites. You guys are the best.
Does anyone have diagrams of the fuel system for the 2.7? And the 3.0? There must be something backwards.
Thanks in advance for the help.

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

My fuel distributor has three connections at the rear where this diagram shows #55 and #56. As I see it, #56 connects the fuel distributor to the cold start valve and #55 connects the fuel distributor to the four-way valve. I see a discrepancy between the way the diagram shows the fuel/vacuum lines and the way mine are hooked up.

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

My fuel distributor has three connections at the rear where this diagram shows #55 and #56. As I see it, #56 connects the fuel distributor to the cold start valve and #55 connects the fuel distributor to the four-way valve. I see a discrepancy between the way the diagram shows the fuel/vacuum lines and the way mine are hooked up.

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

Jim,

Where does the fuel line comes from the fuel filter and connects to the fuel distributor again? I'm confused. I've followed the diagram and see what may be wrong with my connections, but I don't understand where the incoming fuel line connects to the fuel distributor. I've attached a picture showing my fuel/vacuum connections. There is definitely a discrepancy here... Thanks for the help!!

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

Jim,
My old fuel distributor has three connections at the rear but my new one has two and they are picured (not very well, though) in the pic I just posted. It seems to me that one should go to the Cold start valve and the other to the 4-way tee. I've got a3-way tee that doesn't belong, at least it's not on any diagram I've seen. Thanks!!

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

How does the fuel get from the fuel filter (part #23) to the fuel distributor? My fuel filter has a brass fitting that connects to a flexible fuel hos and it connects to the rear of my fuel distributor. In the diagram, it isn't clear to me where the fuel line connects from the fuel filter to the fuel distributor. I think this is where my problem is...

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

If the brass fitting at the very rear of the fuel distributor is where the fuel line goes from the fuel filter, that is where one of my problems is. Apparently, the brass line has been replaced with a flexible line and a tee has been placed in it. The tee connections will have to be changed but I want to be sure I do this right since it will be a "bear" to get to those connections and clamps. I may have to do a partial engine drop (a few inches) to get to those clamps and lines. I just want to be sure I get them correct this time. Thanks and sorry for the numerous posts, I feel like I'm getting closer to solving this puzzle and I really want to get it solved!

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

Jim,
I reread your post and see the line from the fuel filter to the fuel distributor under part #48. Where does this physically connect on the fuel distributor? Is it one of the two fittings on the rear of the fuel distributor?

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

Jim,
wow, those two pics really clear things up and let me know what I have to do to get this all connected properly!! Thank you so much!! Now, to just find that connection point on the fuel distributor that the nylon fuel line connects to!!

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

Jim,
Wow! I don't recall ever seeing a line to my fuel distributor like your engine has. I'm going to have to "dissect" a little bit to get to those areas and feel around to find that connection. That has got to be my problem (or one of them). What do you think? Thanks again for the invaluable assistance!!!

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

Jim,
Thanks! I'll do my best to get this sorted out. I wish I would have found this out before I reinstalled the engine! I'll probably have to do a partial frop (several inches) to get to these hoses connections and clamps! I really appreciate your assistance!!

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

Jim,
I can smell fraw uel and I get fuel coming from the fuel filter, but then the car won't start. It is getting spark to the plugs, but it acts like it just cant get the spark/fuel mixture at the right time. I know my timing is off, but could these connections be causing the "hard to start cold" problem?

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

Jim,
I'll take your advice but I wanted to let you know that my throttle body (#20 in 2/3/1) is not connected to the fuel distributor, there is a broken black plastic hard line that goes nowhere and there is a vacuum line hooked up, but that's it. Is this part integral to the functioning to the system? My cold start valve is hooked up to a 3-way tee and I want to hook it back up to the fuel distributor like the diagram shows it should be.

I replaced the hand throttle switch a few years ago and I don't think I did it correctly because the hand throttle does nothing at all. I'll see if the microswitch (#10 in 2/3/1) is working correctly.

I have a Pertronix Ignitor unit in the distributor so I don;t have points/or dwell to adjust but I need to confirm that the rotor is pushed all the way down onto the shaft, etc... I will attempt to set the timing and sort out the vacuum/fuel lines today and tomorrow after work and I'll adjust the clutch cable so I can shift the car into gear. Lots of "little things" left, but I'm still not sure how component #20 (throttle body) functions without a fuel line connected to it? Perhaps that why the "tees" have been installed, to bypass it?

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

I'm also going to confirm that the WUR is indeed hooked to the fuel distributor (mixture contrl unit) as the diagram shows. Since the throttle body is disconnected, perhaps the WUR is too...

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

Here is a very rough schematic of my fuel/vacuum lines, showing the connections to the throttle body, cold start valve, WUR, etc... The fuel lines are labeled "F" and the vacuum lines are labeled "V". I hope this helps explain how my setup looks. Notice that there isn't a ful line connection from the throttle body to the fuel distributor, just a vacuum line...

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

Jim,
I'll take a look tonight, since I'm doing this from memory/pics, but I know I don't have a fuel connection from the throttle body control pressure device (just above the CSV), it's just broken off and there is a vacuum hose connection. There is a fuel connection from the CSV to the FD. I'm going to compare my hose setup to the '74 CIS diagram and make absolutely sure I know where everything goes and document it so if I make any changes, I can "undo" them if things go south... Thanks for your help!

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

I'm going to be setting the timing tonight and see if this gets the car running like it should. I have several fuel/vacuum line "issues" that I may have to change, but I don't want to do that until I see if setting the timing gets the car running.

The Throttle Control Pressure Valve isn't connected to the system (the connection from it to the fuel distributor is not there) and the previous owner bypassed the device with a "tee" connection, so I'll find out if that will present any complications...

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

I think I may have found an answer to my question "Why is there no fuel connection between the fuel distributor and the throttle pressure control valve?"

"Some time in '74, there was a change to a vacuum assisted WUR, which eventually led to the discontinuance of the throttle operated Control Pressure Regulator for the '76 models. This component adjusted the fuel mixture depending on throttle position, leaning out the mixture at mid-throttle position. The vacuum assisted WUR in '76 took over the job of mixture adjustment based on engine load determined from intake manifold vacuum."

My WUR has a vacuum connection, so perhaps it's been "upgraded" to the "vacuum assisted WUR" as I know the WUR was replaced about three years ago...

From this website (great CIS resource)....

http://members.rennlist.com/jimwms/CIS/CIShome.html

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

I've gone through everything (fuel vacuum, electrival connections, ignition, timing) and the car will not start. We set the timing with the static method because we can't get the car to start. If I spray starter fluid in the airbox, the car will start and run for a few seconds, then die. I replaced the fuel pump and that didn't help, I smell fuel and I have spark, but the car will not start. I've done everything I can think of and I've had a few people help and still no luck, so I'm taking the car (on a flatbed trailer) to a Porsche shop (Munks' Motors in Waterford, MI) next week. I've lost my patience and I can't do anything else, except perhaps mess something up worse than it is now, so the pros will have to see if they can figure it out.