Club Sports revisited

[smross]

Having read the recent debate regarding Club Sport values with much interest:

911 Club Sport For Sale

I went to see a US Spec. Club Sport at Hatch and Sons, a well respected Mercedes resto shop and seller of fine used cars in Wayland, MA. The car they had was virtually perfect with 14k orig. mi. No radio, A/C, etc. White/black. Asking price? $64,900. It will be interesting to see how this car fares as it appears to be $16-20k above the recent selling prices of Club Sports. Having said that, Hatch has a reputation for getting top dollar for their cars. BTW, no affiliation, blah, blah, blah with Hatch.

Here's a link to the site:

http://www.hatchandsons.com/

Click on "Porsche" and you'll see the link to the Club Sport.

[bigrubberjeep]

So......what is so great about a CS? OTher then it is a rare combinations of the economy version of a Carrera?

I mean wouldnt most "DRIVERS" want a Carrera with all the goodies vs. Missing all the Godies?

Look in to the M491 code "Super Sport" pretty rare and they have all the turbo upgrades, fenders, wheels, brakes, suspension. But with no Turbo Motor.

Just a budget - "Drivers" dream! (yet rare enough to be under 300 in existance)

[IROC]

I'd rather have a '76/'77 3.0 liter Carrera than a Club Sport. I just don't get $65k for a standard Carrera that has some subtle niceties....

Heck, my '76 has a 250hp 3.2, Carrera flares, Carrera brakes and Carrera sway bars and it weighs 2450 lbs. It's not even worth a third of $65k.

Mike

[Jack Olsen]

The collector market is a different animal altogether. I don't think anyone would argue that a CS offers good bang for the buck, in terms of simple performance. Then again, a Carrera RS is even worse, if your only goal is having a fast 911.

Both, however, should continue to be worth a lot. And both are good examples of the Porsche factory making some great road cars.

[IROC]

Yeah, collector stuff gets out of hand. Heck, RS Americas still seem to command a premium which pisses me off because I'd love to have one.

Mike

[masraum]

$65K for an '88 CS?? That just seems insane, but then again if I could afford an Enzo, McClaren F1, original 917, CGT, 956/962, then it probably wouldn't matter. Of course, you could buy a Carrera and build it to be what you wanted which is what I would prefer. But to each his own. Hmm, a CS for $65k, I bet I could get some really cool, later model cars for that, or some really cool earlier cars for that, or a couple of cars...


Hahaha, I could get 3 regular '88 Carrera's for that and maybe have money left over for some mods...

[RENNMAN]

OK I will bite but I am partial because I own one. I don't want to justify the car but there are alot of differences compared to a standard Carrera. I have seen prices rise from the low 30's in the mid 90's to 50 plus today. There are only 28 U.S. cars here so depending how bad you want one will depend on what one sells for. They were the first 911 to wear the Club Sport name and are a must have lightweight 911. They were the 80's version of the RS.

If none of this thrills you or you do not see spending the money you could always buy two good Carreras for the same money. High mile Club Sports can still be had in the 30's if you can find one.

Best,

Don

[masraum]

Well, everything that I have heard to date indicated that the weight savings wasn't very large, but then the thread listed above shows the weight to be 1160 kg unladen, now if that means dry or just "no driver/cargo" I'm not sure. I was also under the impression that not all of the CS's came completely stripped because you could add some options back into the car.

It would take a fair amount of work to duplicate one if they are indeed without undercoating. Most of the rest would be relatively easy to duplicate.

As stated earlier with ultra-low miles it is more a collector issue than anything else, and that moves it to a completely new world.

I'd love to know if any of the CS owners have had their car weighed. I'd like to see what some real world numbers show.

[RENNMAN]

I have not weighed mine but the original Porsche Cars North America press release published a 155 pound weight savings over a standard Carrera.

Best,

Don

[88cs]

The car, 1988, is not an option car. It is a production model, of which 22 were produced for the US. You are paying for the serial number, how much you want to pay for it is up to you.

[smross]

Something I've read in two different articles mentions the engines were blueprinted and that the actual horsepower figure was something around 245bhp. Can anyone verify if that's true or not?

[Bill Verburg]

There is nothing special about a CS. The following is quoted from C/D 9/88
"The Club Sport is the Weight Watchers 911. For a base price of $45,895-the same amount you pay for a fully equipped Carrera-you get a car without the following items: A/C, a stereo, power windows and locks, sound-deadening insulation, rear jump seats, armrests, and a passenger's-side sun visor. The benefit of selfdenial is a saving of 155 pounds, according to Porsche.
And this diet comes with dessert: a helping of sporting stuff to spice up the 9ll's performance. A chin spoiler and the famous Porsche whale tail increase downforce and improve high-speed stability. Stiffer sport shocks tighten wheel control. The 2l4-hp, 3.2-liter, all-aluminum flat six gets hollow intake valves and a new chip for its control computer to raise the rpm cutoff from 6520 to 6840. A shortened, quick-throw shifter allows faster gear changes. Deeply winged sport seats bear-hug you in the turns. Our test car wore optional, extra large Dunlop SP Sport D40s, size 205/55VR-16 up front and 225/50VR-16 in the rear. "

Here is the data table,


The track results favor the Corvette,

[88cs]

"There is nothing special about a CS. "

Sure, there are all kinds of serial number range = 22 Porsches out there. Loads of attempts at lightweights, too.

Like it or not, it is a rare car, and that's why the value is what it is.

Out of curiousity, have you driven one?

[goat]

When I first read about the club sport I thought it would be great to have. After all, My ideal Porsche, is to have a reliable engine not that other models are not, and to have a fun sports car that is light and without all the gizmos that add weight like AC, electric this and that.
But it is a collectors car now.
But thanks to this site I have found ways to make my own club sport without the VIN of course.

[RENNMAN]

I will quote the May 88 Road and Track (It IS a better respected mag anyway) "a very desirable Porsche whose current 46 thousand-plus pricetag may seem like a bargain in years to come." I guess their crystal ball was right on that day.

Now let's flame the RSA, the 73 RS and the 968CS....

Best,

Don

[bigrubberjeep]

Well from my perpective I find it better to get a car that came with "added" performance code's then to get a car with "reduced" performance codes,sinc eit is always easier to REMOVE wheight then it is to "ADD" factory perfomance products.

i.e. - Factory wide-body, 4 piston brakes, cross drilled rotors, Turbo supension,chin spoiler, whale tail. I could always make it lighter for very little money.

[Bill Verburg]

Well I think my C3 is best

[execfin]

Just like with the venerable RS, there will always be numbers of clones but very few originals. The Speedster is another good example, although in those cases you're not starting with an actual Porsche. Originality always has a premium.

I think Porsche in their advertising for the Club Sport summed it up very well: Absolutely the wrong car for so many people.

[masraum]

Well from my perpective I find it better to get a car that came with "added" performance code's then to get a car with "reduced" performance codes,sinc eit is always easier to REMOVE wheight then it is to "ADD" factory perfomance products.

I believe the CS did come with front and rear spoilers, "factory widebody" is not actually a performance option assuming you are referring to the flares - it actually hurts aero and is therefore a performance reducer, cross drilled rotors are not necessarily a performance option, turbo suspension and turbo brakes are a performance option, but if the car is actually lighter then you are accomplishing some of the same without adding even more weight.

From one point of view it could be said that the turbo look (without the turbo motor) is actually a slower car since it has worse aero and is heavier.

of course, so is my targa for the same reasons and also extra weight up high.

[masraum]

I think the main problem with the club sport is that they didn't go far enough.