MFI, Im not bringing this back to my mechanic

[Early_S_Man]

Grady,

Yes, I have seen those crimp rings, but didn't even consider recommending them, since the special crimping tool for them was over $40 ... around 20 years ago! And, to do the job with that tool requires that the stacks be removed so the tool can have access to the ring from below. When I did my engine using the worm-gear clamps ... I could do it with the stacks still in place.

I never considered that crimping tool as cost-effective for the home mechanic.

[Jay Zollinger]

I really didn't mean to hijack anything, I was just trying to help explore an alternative. Shuie, I appologize if you felt hijacked.

Speaking of alternatives and cold start squirters, a PO coated the exposed parts of my squirters with a rubberish epoxy, presumably to preempt or at least minimize any future leaks. This seems like a good idea to me if anyone is refurbishing their cold start system.

Also, Uncle Zak, who frequently lists parts here, was able to sell me one of the t-shapes nozzles, which was missing from my car when I bought it. If anyone else is missing or breaks one of these, he may be a source for replacing an otherwise unobtainable part.

[ed martin]

Shuie, I've been through a lot of these problems myself with my setup. The one thing you have to do is adress all the fundamental elements of the system. Start with the simple things, such as disconnected hoses, fuel leaks, occlusions,etc. In my experience I usually find the problem to be about something incredibly obvious or stupid. I had a hard start situation in a parking lot and soon realized one of the cold start lines going to the stacks was dumping fuel all over the parking lot. Fortunately there was a Kragens next door and with two dollars worth of fuel line replaced the whole system and fixed the problem. As for as the thermostadt goes, it seems like a pretty mechanical fail safe system. You may want to check and see that the rings are clean and in order with the proper orientation and number. A lot of people customize or alter these things where you could achieve the same result by simply making the adjustment on the rack. Once youve gone through the system and have all the fundamentals in place then you want to set the lean rich mixture. But only after youve covered the basics. You may want to go through the ten demnandments in the check measure and adjust. Once youve done that the last step is to set the lean rich mixture. One word of advice on that subject, dont try doing that your self, or setting it to "feel" or by ear etc. I fumbled with that subject for probably a good year, perusing all sorts of manuals etc. I could never get it right. You have to do take it to sombody who is experienced and it has to be checked under load. I found a guy who worked for Vlasic Polak in the old days, I paid him a hundred bucks and he got it to run beautifly at 4.5 C0 where I had it at 16%. Oh yeah theyll say just lean it out till it backfires then enrich it , real simple, but it just doesnt work that way. By the way it sounds like your almost there.

[Shuie]

Originally posted by Shuie
ok, I'll find a fuse and see if it works. Im gonna feel like a dummy if all I need is a damn fuse.

Ok, I feel like a dummy. Milt, I owe you a beer.

I turned the key and put the volt meter on the terminal block that didnt have a wire running to it and it was hot, just like you said. I put a fuse in the fuse block, turned the key to let the system prime for a few seconds. It fired on the third chug after I turned the key.

It still gets lean enough to kill the motor at idle if I dont use the hand throttle when its warm. Its running much better than it was so Im happy. Im still ordering the tools and going through CMA to make it right. My neighbors will be happy that it doesnt take me 5 minutes to start it in the morning anymore.

I checked all of the fuel lines real carefully and Im not dumping fuel anywhere, but replacing them is still a very high priority.

Thanks again everyone!

[Grady Clay]

Warren, Milt & Ed,

Right on, basics first. I regularly get sucked into the situation of (1) defined problem, (2) found probable cause, (3) light into apparent solution, (4) missing the root cause.

In Sherman’s case; (1) was hard to start cold, poor idle, and impossible to start hot. (2) Was found disconnected hot air tube to thermostat and prior tech had adjusted mixture lean. (3) Replacing the hot air tube to the thermostat and getting ready to adjust the mixture back richer. (4) The root cause was the missing fuse.

I think the sequence of Sherman’s difficulty was:
1. The thermostat hose failed.
2. Someone misinterpreted the too rich condition to be related to the cold start system and removed the fuse.
3. Sherman’s tech didn’t recognize the broken hose and the consequent lack of heat to the thermostat OR the non-functioning of the cold start system.
4. Tech leaned the main to get it to run at all.
5. This resulted in Sherman’s symptoms at the beginning of this thread.

The thing that concerns me the most is that the tech apparently just put Sherman’s 911 aside for 3 months. There isn’t anyone in the world that can’t post on this forum and get good advice.

Perhaps many of us could contribute to a Version II of CMA that still follows the basic thread but has many entry points. Sort of a multi-dimensional tree structure ending up with a good running MFI.

Sherman,

Do you now have enough heat to the thermostat to get it to turn off fully? What did you discover this past weekend?

I just went back and re-read the entire thread. There is a scary picture of the fuel lines to and from the fuel filter console. I recommend replacing fuel lines all the way back to the tank. It will give you an excuse to inspect and clean the fuel screen at the tank.

Warren, Ed, Milt, and others have given you good advice. That is in addition to your willingness to actually go read prior threads and CMA and apply some good intellect to the problem. Good for you!

Keep us abreast of your progress.

Best,
Grady

[Grady Clay]

Sherman,

What MFI tools are you looking at?

I think the critical ones are:
1. An inexpensive exhaust gas analyzer that is battery powered or runs on 12V.
2. A magnetic tool to R&R the bolt for the main mixture adjust access.
3. A homemade tool, like P229c, for adjusting the main mixture.
4. A homemade tool, like P230c, for adjusting the idle mixture.
5. A homemade tool like P235 to measure the idle and just-off-idle air flow.
6. Factory P228b and P228c to set the throttle body linkage, need both.
7. Fuel pressure gauge like P233b with a long -3 hose extension to the cockpit.
8. A vacuum gauge to measure the pressure under the butterfly.
9. A good data-logging thermometer, 6-channel, type K thermocouples.
10. A notebook to keep track of everything, particularly mixture changes (clicks). It is imperative that you can get back to a known starting point.

Some really important general diagnostic tools are:
1. A good, screw-in compression gauge.
2. A cylinder leak gauge with homemade screw-in adapter.
3. A good, 12V powered timing light.
4. Several clip-on 12V test lights with adaptors and extensions.
5. An inexpensive ignition oscilloscope.
6. An automotive stethoscope.
7. A bright light on the end of a flexible wand (3V).
8. An inferred pyrometer to measure surface temperatures.
9. A “heat gun” to test heat the thermostat and thermo-switches.
10. The 911 cam timing dial indicator tool.
11. An optical bore-scope to fit the sparkplug hole so you can inspect the combustion chamber and read the mixture. Additionally you can find, confirm or refute many mechanical problems.

Some spare parts might be:
1. A few extra, known good, injector nozzles.
2. A spare sealing bolt and copper washer for the main mixture. Sooner or later that bolt and/or washer will end up under the pump.
3. Plenty of extra blades for valve adjust tool.
4. A known good used CD box, coil, wires, plug connectors, spark plugs, wiring harness, and complete distributor is also a great diagnostic tool.

A useful modification is to add a “fuel sample port” at the filter console since many organizations require a fuel sample at events. It can also be used to measure the fuel pressure, measure fuel flow and to empty the fuel tank.

It is very worthwhile for every MFI owner to know and record all the significant details of the engine while everything is working properly. When there is some glitch, it makes it much easier to diagnose the problem.

Best,
Grady

[Shuie]

Grady, thanks again for the help. This board is an incredible resource because of people like you.

I think the thermostat is operating properly now. The car restarts fine when it is hot, so that means there is a good chance the cold start system is shutting off like its suppose to right? I know it’s getting hot air for sure, but I need to put a heat gun to it with a CO2 analyzer to say that it works with 100% confidence.

The car starts up fast and runs good as long as I let the fuel pump run for a few seconds when its cold and pull the hand throttle slightly to keep the idle up close to 1500 RPM after it’s warm.

Warren asked about backfiring on decel earlier. This did happen once when I got off the gas real hard and hasn’t happened since. I’m guessing this will get ironed out when I go through CMA.

One thing I noticed is that my oil temp is getting up to operating range much quicker now. I guess that could be because it’s getting close to normal Louisiana summer temperatures around here though.

The tools I have purchased or am considering at this point are:
*Feeler gauges – I’ll probably get rid of the points eventually, but I needed a set of these anyway
*Inductive timing light – bought one from Harbor Freight
*Compression tester – Harbor Freight has what looks like a decent inexpensive one that comes with a storage case.
*MFI specific adjustment tools – I almost ordered the $50 set from Pelican the other day, but I’m researching making my own. I’m not trying to be cheap about it, but I found more than once in the old threads where people said to make your own idle and main tools.
*Gas analyzer – Clueless here. Suggestions or a source for a good one? Pelican has one, but I don’t think it’s the cheap one
*Synchrometer – Pelican has these. Nothing whiz-bang about this thing is there? Anyone will work for what I need, right?

Spare parts so far:
*Bosch 3 pin CDI – Got a spare in my empty battery box right now. I’ll buy a few more just to have them
*Plastic Ts – I’ll get some of these from Zak
*Injectors – Zak probably has some

The plan outside of CMA to make sure the fuel system is clean:
*replace fuel lines
*new filter
*clean and seal tank

Damn the luck. I bought this car because I wanted something to drive while I worked on my ‘Project’ car

[Rot 911]

Sherman get the Gunson Gas Tester. Do a search with that name and my screen name to get a good review of it.

For adjustment tools I always used a small screw driver for the idle misture adjusment and a long aluminum rod to reach through the hole in the fan shroud and a small open end (7mm?) wrench for the main mixture adjustment. No need to spend big bucks on those tools.

You should be able to find a decent syncronizer for around $30.00

Actually I am not using any of these tools right now (although I sold my Gunson Gas Tester) and would be happy to loan them to you for as long as you need them.