Randy,

The jack pads are just fine for positioning the 911. Make sure the jacks’ release is smooth and controllable. Going up is easy; coming down under control is a big issue. Since the jack-points are at about the fore-aft balance point, it might be wise to ballast the trunk with, say a half dozen 6-gal water jugs. Leave the jacks in place to augment the jack stands. Many, many years ago we had several homemade wooden cubes about 20” on a side. They were constructed from scrap 2x4s and placed under the tunnel at the rear firewall. A couple of extra jack stands should do for you. Don’t fail to block the front tires both directions.
Another good place to position jack stands is on the sheet-metal chassis just ahead of the torsion bars. There are some circular pads there. You will need some cardboard and plywood to protect the chassis.
In my almost 20 years with my 7-16 employee Porsche only shop, there never was an accident. PHEW! “Safety is no accident.”

I downloaded Jim’s suggestion. Now he has to explain to me how to make it do what we want. Yes, I really like the posting on this forum because it disseminates all our collective knowledge. No one person knows or has experienced everything.

You need to do some shopping (price and availability) for clutch components, CVs, and transmission parts. Be prepared.

Have you been to the library?

Thanks for the image of your car, cool!

The height issue is related to spring stiffness (torsion bar size). If you have stock torsion bars, IMHO the rear is too low. It probably is close to resting on the stops in the shocks.
Please don’t address this until after the transmission is resolved.

Best,
Grady

Got a late start, but I am now in progress!

The oil filter is off and the oil tank is drained, but I seem to be haing trouble locating the sump drain plug. From the picture in Wayne's tech article, it looks as though it is in the middle of a circular plate, bit there is no plate. I was, however, able to find what looks like another plug towards the front of the case, could this be my plug?

Grady, I wasn't able to locate any manuals at the local libraries. The closest I could find was a Bentley's for VW...close, but no cigar!

Not sure what I was thinking the other night, but I took a closer look at the drain plug for the tranny and guess what I discovered...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1082823003.jpg

Looks like there really was some damage done...hopefully, not too much! :(

Randy

This is the "plug" I was refereing to...although it seems to be places a bit high to be the drain plug.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1082823745.jpg

And, amd I correct in assuming this to be the Serial Number for the engine? (230.101.104.5R) Or is that just a part number?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1082823779.jpg

Randy

Never mind! I found it!:D
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1082824847.jpg

Randy,

The 930.101.104.5R is simply a casting number for the crankcase. The engine S/N is up top behind the oil pressure sender.

The new parts you found are probably the dogs off first gear.

Best,
Grady

those little teeth are from the syncro hub that retains the syncro ring, and various syncro parts. that is a normal replacement item on a rebuild. always replace at least 1st and 2nd hubs on a rebuild, because either one commonly sheds teeth. the rest, 3rd, 4th, 5th, may be worn into a hook shape, or blunted from grinding, and should also be replaced if that's the case.
don't forget to drain the oil tank too.
barnes and noble should have a bentley and wayne's books.

Your first suspect for the drain plug is the safety valve for the oil pump. There is a spring and a small piston in there to relive oil pressure when it gets above 10 bar for some reason. Hey, seems you a getting down to business with your engine removal. Very cool. I hope everything goes well. Please post some pictures as you continue

Cheers,
Ingo

do yourself a favor and search and read all the 915 posts by ohecht and utkarmannghia. they both did their own work, and overcame various issues that came up, including detent positions on reassembly. pay attention to the detents. plenty of pictures in the posts also.

Is it safe to jack the rear end by placing the jack underneath where I drained the sump? (My last posted pic) Would sure make it a lot easier.

Randy

if you pad it with a block of wood, that would work. the crossover pipe flange under the bellhousing would be safer, like i previously suggested.

John, your suggested location is where I've been using to jack. It's just been a pain getting it started cuz it's so far under the car, it interferes with the jack handle. I'll just continue to use your location. Thanks!!!

Randy

i'm just used to my jack with the long handle.

Okay...had a few more delays, but I've been back at work and have been following the steps in Wayne's Tech Article.

I'm at the point where he says to disconnect the plug for the reverse light where it connects to the transmission. Can't seem to find this. I've search all around the transmission and the only place I can find that looks like wires connected to the transmission is on the right side, almost underneath the starter. this doesn't look like what I'm supposed to me unplugging, can you give me some clues, something to look for, maybe a photo?

Thanks!

Randy

look directly on the end of the trans, under a rubber boot, between the trans mount and the firewall. needlenose pliers work well to peel back the boot and pull the wire ends out of the switch. the loom also is held by a black plastic tie-wrap to the side of the trans, which has to be undone to let the loom hang free. all the starter wires need to come off too. i assume you're leaving the trans in the car, otherwise you would just disconnect the battery cable from the starter and leave the rest of the wires.

Thanks, John!

I'll take a look first thing in the morning. Other than the reverse switch, I've finished the entire first section of Wayne's article.

the next steps involve disconnecting the fuel lines, and since I AM using a halogen lamp as my main lighting source, I'll think I'll take the safe route and wait for natural daylight, tomorrow.

I've taken these pictures as references for when it comes time to re-assemble.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1082854281.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1082854299.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1082854313.jpg

Randy

see that little bolt-on bracket with the pin sticking out of it in the second pic? the horseshoe spring pivots around it. remove it to gain access to the lower left engine to trans nut.

Will do, John, Thanks!

Got another question that's been bugging me. Maybe I should wait until I get there, but I'm trying to picture the actual lowering of the engine.

Ingo's (Ischmitz) plan suggests lowering the entire rear end, with the engine still bolted in. He lowers it without the rear wheels so that the engine ends up sitting on the furniture dolly. Once there, the mount bolts are removed and the car is raised back up...without the engine.

Wayne's plan calls for lowering just the engine onto some 4 x 4 pieces of wood, with the car still on jackstands. May be a little tricky trying to balance the engine this way. He then transfers the engine to a furniture dolly.

Being a one man show, I'm kinda leaning towards Ingo's plan. Wayne suggests raising the car from the rear of the floor pan if more clearance is needed to roll out the engine. Can I use this location to lower the car with the engine still attached without damaging anything, or is the floor pan just too weak?

Randy

Randy,

there are many ways to get the engine out of the car. Do a search on the board with "engine drop" You'll see many threads with tons of pictures. Some suggest to take the engine out separate from the transmission. In your case that does not make sense since you need both to come out anyway. I would recomend to take the engine with the tranny as one unit. I am not sure if my method would work for jsut the engine.

The reason I did it my way was that I also was a one-man show at the time. I did not have the special jack adapter and did not feel confident balancing the engine/tranny on a jack 4 feet in the air. My way is very save since the engine can not fall off the jack. The trick is that you need to have three jacks. Two do the car lifting and one is used under the tranny nose. As the car goes up in the rear you tilt up the tranny nose. That way the shift selector shaft stays always more or less centered in the tunnel. Once you have enough height on the car for the fan housing to clear the rear crossmember you can slide the engine back 5 inches and lower the nose of the tranny. When I do the lifting I always wiggle the engine a little bit to make sure it does not catch anywhere.

Others have done the standard method jacking up the car high in the reat and lowering the engine with a jack. I would highly recomend to have more than one guy for doing it this way. If 400+ lbs start to slide there is nothing you can do. Trust me. Just get the hell out of harms way.

You might want to consider taking the rear valance and the rear bumper off the car. That gives you a little more clearance when sliding the engine out from under the car.

If you raise the car at the rear of the floor pan make sure you use a 2x4 to distribute the weight. The edge at the floorpan is very solid but you don't want to bite in there with the jack plate alone.

Have you tried and post an engine drop party to get some Pelican heads in your area over to give you a hand when you drop the engine. I have seen this many times.

Good luck,
Ingo

Ingo,

Sorry for seeming a little dense here, but....

Clarifying your proceedure: with the engine resting on the furniture dolly, you raised the rear end with a jack underneath each jack point. You also lifted underneath the tranny as you raised the car and when you were able to clear the rear end with the engine. When there was clearance to slide the engine back, you dis so, pulling the shifter rod out of the tunnel, is this correct? Seems like you were doing quite a bit of juggling between the three jacks! :D

John, you've told me that the rear sway bar is going to have to come out. What about the bar that runs "inside" it...the rounded one that runs from rear wheel to rear wheel? Will this cause me any problems, or should it come out as well?

Randy

there is no bar inside the sway bar. you probably mean the torsion bar, and it stays put. the sway bar is the bar that runs crossways under the trans mount. disconnect the shift coupler in the tunnel before lowering the engine. access to the coupler is thru the hole in the rear of the tunnel, inside under the carpet. just remove the allen set screw, and wiggle it off forward, and leave the nut and bolt alone. disconnect the speedo wiring while you're in there and poke the connector thru the hole in the firewall so it doesn't get ripped off when you pull the engine. you better get rolling if you're going to be done by next weekend!

Randy, are you talking about the half shafts that go into the tranmission? I'm not sure if you've done this, but the CV joints have to be loosed first. These are the shafts that go from the transmission to the wheels. Just take off the bolts on the transmission side, not the wheel side (they can stay).

I didnt use 3 jacks, 2 were enuf. I put the car on ramps, disconnected the CV joints against the tranny, disconnected everything else except the 2 engine cross bar bolts in the engine compartment. Then I put a small jack under the nose of the tranny (you can also use a jack stand too), put my big jack under the engine with a piece of plywood between it and the jack as to not hurt the engine. Then I pull out the 2 engine cross bar bolts and slowly lower the engine onto a dolly or a couple of 2x4s so I can slide it. I positioned the jack pad just in front of my oil drain plate, but since you do not have one of those, put it a little forward of half way the size of the engine. That should give it a decent balance point.

Up and at it early on a Sunday morning, John? Well, I, for one really appreciate it.

I think I have it worked out. I was actually thinking the transmission cradle was the sway bar. I'll go ahead and drop the real sway bar and also the cradle.

The 19mm bolts on each end of the cradle seem awfully tight, in relation to all the others I've encountered. Is there anything I should be aware of with these things, or do I just need to twist harder?

also, it looks as though I may have everything else disconnected. I checked and re-checked all around the sides and to the rear of the engine and there doesn't seem to be anything still connected. Can't get a good, clear shot of the area in front of the engine, but from what I can see, it looks good. Just need to pop the throttle linkage loose, find that connection for the reverse sensor and then remove the sway bar and cradle...then she should be ready to drop. Perhaps right on schedule.

Proceeding slowly, and hopefully safely! :D

Randy

Randy, The half axles have to come loose and the sway bar has to come out. The tranmission mount with the two 19mm bolts !!stays!! on the transmission. If you take the two 19mm bolts out without support under the tranny it'll DROP!!!. Those two 19mm and the two at the front of the engine (fan side) are the four bolts that hold the entire engine/tranny package in the car.

I won't be reading this for the next 20 hours. I am on my way to Taiwan. Once there I will check back. Good luck. And please ask as many Q's as you want before doing something you are not 100% clear about.

Ingo

Ingo, thanks for saving my a$$!!! :eek:

I haven't messed with the 19mm bolts because, like I said, they just seemed a little snugger than anything else. they are still tight and in place...whew!

And trust me, I am definitely asking questions throughout this entire process, if I'm not sure. They sway bar is on the way out right now.

Randy

Just a few more pics that I've taken along the way:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1082919180.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1082919204.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1082919218.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1082919237.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1082919254.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1082919271.jpg

John, this next shot is from the passenger side of the tranny. This is the closest I can come to any kind of boot for the reverse sensor. It's located right between the starter and the CV joint. Can you give me a more specific location of where to look?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1082919407.jpg

Also, is this two-wire bundle the speedo wiring I need to feed back through the tunnel? The PO also ran a vacuum hose through there, so I may just have to cut them and rejoun them on re-assembly...after I re-route the vacuum hose.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1082919511.jpg

Thanks for all the info guys, you're really making this job a lot easier for this rookie! :D

Randy

the reverse wires are on the end cover of the trans, between the trans mount and the firewall. right next to where the shifter comes out of the end cover. that looks like the speedo connector alright. the brown wire bundle comes off at the intake, and the fuel lines at the top of the filter and behind #3 intake get separated. don't forget the multi-pin connector by the top of the left rear shock.

Okay, the brown bundles had been removed from the manifold, all the fuel lines are disconnected and the multi-pin plug has also been disconnected.

I believe I found the reverse sensor...can't tell you how many times I looked right at it and thought that it wasn't it. Can you confirm I got the right thing?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1082922773.jpg

Also, with the reverse sensor and the speedo cable disconnected, I believe I am ready to lower the car. I've got the dolly in place to set underneath the engine as she comes down, just wanna make sure I can use the jack in this location without tearing anything up.

John, this is the same alternate location I asked you about yesterday
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1082923008.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1082923027.jpg

Randy

Does not look like you have enough clearance to pull the engine out. On a stock Carrera, you can remove the bumper and the valence to get another 8-10 inches. Not sure what you can do with your modified bumper.

Hi, yelcab1!

The plan, after lowering the engine to the dolly is to raise the rear end back up with a jack under the 2 X 4 at the rear of the floor pan. I'm hoping that will give me enough clearance without having to remove the rear bumper and valence.

My concern before lowering it, though, is whether or not the location of my jack pad will cause any damage to the engine case.

Thanks!

Randy

Randy, You should really have a piece of board between the floor jack and motor, IMO, it is a lot of extra protection and will spread the load a little. A piece of 3/4 plywood about wide enough to fit between heat exchangers and maybe 1-1/2 to 2 feet long is perfect. The center of gravity for the engine+trans together is approx. under the two cylinders closest to the transmission. (This is refered to as the "rear" of the 911 motor, even though it is the end towards the front of the car. The end that attaches to trans= rear of motor).

Take a couple minutes to study this photo:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1082934251.jpg

Grady


Dennis,

Thank you, nice image. I’ll use it on some MFI threads.

Yes, it is very worthwhile to build yourself a custom wood adapter between your jack and your particular engine. Properly done you won’t damage the engine and it is reasonably attached to the jack. Knowing the location of the CG is very important. I note you don’t have the muffler installed on your ‘72T. Randy has an ‘86SC which is both heavier and probably the CG is slightly different.

Everyone who is DIY and regularly R&Rs his engine and/or transmission should make their own jack-to-engine wood adaptor..

Randy, it looks like you are making proper progress. Good for you. I keep watching and you are getting great advice.

Best,
Grady

IT'S OUT!!!!! IT'S OUT!!!!! IT'S OUT!!!!!

Found the number to a local Pelican-head, Jay Houghton (jhoughton) and gave him a ring. Not only was he able to offer some great advice, he actually showed up 5 minutes after I called him, bringing help, Josh Roberts. What a couple of heroes! Thanks to both of these guys, the engine and tranny are now out and sitting on the furniture dolly! I can't thank these two enough! SmileWavy

With the three of us in position we used the two floor jacks, one under the engine and the other under the tranny, to lower the set to the furniture dolly. there were a few small snags, wire bundles from the rear of the engine that got hung, but those were caught before any damage was done.

Still gotta thank everyone here who helped also...there is absolutely no way I could have done this myself, manual or no manual.

But....now that the engine and tranny are down, the real fun begins. I'll be opening up the tranny this week to have a look. I'm sure I'll have a million more question for everyone. Thank you all so much!

Randy

P.S. My first engine drop just wouldn't be complete without the obligatory engine bay shot!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1082944777.jpg

Randy,

Yah hoo, good for you. No injury to you or the 911. See, Pelicans come through, on line and in person. Hats off to Jay and Josh. I like the smile.

Now for the important stuff.

Best,
Grady

There's nothing like a few Pelican heads lending a hand. It's amazing how much faster it goes with a guy who's done it a few times before. After this, you'll be able to do it yourself without any problems, but why would you since you've got Pelican brethren nearby ;)

Attaboy, Randy! http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/wat6.gif

Grady, I actually pulled that picture off of the Pelican catalogue site, they sell a couple of adaptors that replace the saddle on a floor jack. One for motor only, and one for motor+trans, (pictured). I have an SC that we rebuilt about a year ago, could have used that adaptor at the time. All you really need is an extra set of hands attached to an experienced brain, though. ;)

I understand that you were dropping 911 motors back when I was in grade school, just wanted to add my appreciation for your presence here. I am also a skier, so I'm familiar w/ your beautiful part of the world. :cool:

(Randy, sorry to interrupt)
This reads like a suspense story!
You guys are heroes...
Awesome, medals to Ingo, John W. (talk about professional ethics!!!), Grady, Matt and the others...
Stay in there, Randy!

Randy,

Congrats you did it. Now let the fun part begin when you rip into the tranny. And cheers to all fellow Pelican heads who showed up. That is great.

Ingo (just flew into Taiwan, tired like a dog)

Thanks for all the kudos, fellas. I really feel like something was acomplished here....even though this journey has just begun.

A few more pics, now that I have the light of day and some time to pick things up a bit...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083022128.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083022146.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083022163.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083022191.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083022208.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083022228.jpg

And here we go with the next round of questions...

1.) Should I completely disconnect the tranny from the engine and work on it that way, or should I take it apart, section by section?

2.) Can I get to the synchros by just opening/removing the nose cap and the intermediate section?

3.) Once removed, the tranny (in pieces or as a whole) will change the CG of the engine. With the way I have it setting here, how unstable would you think it would become?

Randy

Randy, disconnect the tranny from the engine. I've heard it's possible without disconnecting it, but it's 4 bolts and the easiest part of the whole thing :)

This will also allow you to inspect the clutch disc to see if it needs to be replaced. An engine stand is VERY helpful in holding your tranny while you disassemble/rebuild. I bought one from Harbor Freight for $39 and it was a Godsend.

The tranny should not affect the CG of the assembly, so just pull it off (mine didnt).

Once inside the tranny, you'll start asking the right questions about the syncros. Read a Bently for the 915 rebuilding...it's what I used and was very helpful.

Good luck brother, and way to go!

Got the nose cap off, and this is what I found:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083027250.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083027281.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083027299.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083027321.jpg

Tried turning them and they move quite freely.

Do I remove the pins and nuts and remove these gears to facilitate removal of the intermediate housing?

Gonna try to pick up an engine stand like you recommended, Matt, and put the tranny on it tomorrow. I think I'll stop here until I get this figured out a little (or a lot ;) ) better.

Randy