The last pics of the evening:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083028802.jpg

What would these rub marks be an indication of?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083028820.jpg

Randy

take off the fork and shift sleeve. slide off the reverse idler and it's bearings. punch out the roll-pin and remove the castle nut. remove the nut on the pinion shaft. remove the hub under the big nut, and then 5th gear. remove the small gear on the mainshaft, and wiggle off the gear under it along with the shaft. shaft and gear come off together. now you can unbolt the intermediate housing and remove it. remove the square plate on the side of it first. then you can see the rest of the gears.

John,

I think I have your instructions worked out. Can you take a look at this pic and lemme know if I got it right. Basically, it looks like everything here comes off...makes sense. I guess these are the nuts I'm gonna use my impact wrench on to bust them loose?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083033511.jpg

Randy

Been looking at how filthy the engine actually is and was wondering what might be the easiest way to get it cleaned up. I've thought about spraying it down with a foaming engine cleaner and the hosing it off, but I don't think I should be washing all the grease and grime down the city drain systems...not to mention what all that water might do if it got into the wrong places.

Randy

Randy,

Now we get down to business, hm. Cool. I have used big Zip ties to make sure the order of things doesn't get screwed up. When you take a gear (or hub or anything) and its bearings and washers off use a zip tie through them and then pack it into ziplock bags. Also make sure the little thrust bearinngs come off in one piece. Their cases are fragile and they tend to stick to the thrust washers. Don't let them drop onto the dirty floor.

If I remember correctly only take the 5th/rev shift fork off the rod. It's easy to adjust later without special tools. Later for 1st/2nd and 3rd/4th forks do not loosen the bolts that hold the forks on their rods.

The castelated nut and the big nut are sometimes a bear to get off. You can put the transmission into reverse and a forward gear at the same time to lock it. For that you need to use a screwdriver through the access cover and push one of the shift rods until it engages. You either need an air impact wrench or a huge breaker bar to get the job done. If you have more than one guy that helps. These nuts are on there with more than 100 ft/lbs.

Once you get to the point of taking the intermediate housing off you are almost there. Loosen the M10 nuts on the bearing retainer plates and then you can take the entire package (input shaft, output shaft two shift rods and forks out as one unit. For this put it into 3rd, then wrap a shop towel around everything and genlty wiggle it free. The shift rods have spring loaded detend pins acting on them. That's what you have to wiggle against.

Ingo

Randy, make sure you learn the vocab for the tranny parts and things will be much easier. The 5th and reverse gears are the easiest to take off once you either impact them off or lock the tranny into 2 gears at once. Once you get your engine stand, then you'll be able to torque them at will.

Once those gears are off and you have the nuts off of the gear housing, DONT pry it off! Use a rubber mallet around until the gasket gives and it will pull right off. You dont want to crack or deform the mating surface of the gear housing, so dont pry anything.

Once you have that done and you pull out the gear stacks (more details are needed for this or read the Bently), dont try to pry off any of the bearing until you read a bit more on how to do them. There are good ways to remove the bearnings without damaging them. They cost hundreds to replace, so be careful with them.

I'm just mentioning these gotchas before you get too far ahead and maybe goof. Good advice from Ingo about tie wraps and keeping things in order. I put all my parts on newspaper on a big table in the garage.

Good luck and remember there's no stoopid question regarding this tranny rebuild! (ask me how I know) :D

Have you gotten the gasket kit yet? You may want to get that early so you can "paint" the copper gasket spray onto those thin gaskets and have it dry before handling it. In addition to spraying the gaskets with copper gasket spray, I also used the Locktite (574?) and an acid brush to lightly coat the surfaces of the gear housing on reassembly. So you may want to get some of that too.

when you get to rubber hammer time on the center housing, DO NOT beat on the protruding ear at the rear of the housing, as it can be broken off.

Not a lot of progress tonight. I did manage to get the tranny mounted on an engine stand. Matt, you were sooo right! It's gonna be a lot easier to work on while on the stand. :)

One thing I noticed while studying how everything was set up is the roll pin on the shift sleeve. It sticks out about 1/2 inch. It does go all the way through the sleeve, but, like I said, it sticks out. You can even see it in a few of the pics above. Is this normal?

Randy

the roll-pin works the backup light switch. no need to mess with it. when you get to the point of removing the gears/shafts, it's easier to do it with the bellhousing down, rather than horizontal on a stand. same goes for reassembly.

So, in reality, maybe I didn't need the engine stand after all. And after I went through all the trouble of hanging it myself. :confused:

Anyway, John, are you saying that roll pin does NOT have to come out? Do I just need to remove that bolt attaching the fork, and the whole thing comes out?

Randy

bolt out, pull off fork and sleeve together. for reassembly purposes, and because you might err on reassembly, perish the thought, measure and record the amount of shaft protruding from the fork. if the fork is reassembled too far out on the shaft, the outer teeth on the sleeve will contact the teeth on the reverse idler and you will have to pull the trans again and correct the problem. the last pic shows reverse engaged. the sleeve is moved inward toward the housing to get into neutral. check it out now to see how much clearance is between the two sets of teeth for future reference. remember that i said this!

Well...if I were progressing any slower, I'd be putting it back together! :rolleyes:

Got the fork and the shift sleeve off, quite painlessly, I might add. Didn't have to remove the bolt at all, it just popped right out. I actually played with it a bit, moving it from reverse to neutral. there was a gap of about 1/16th of an inch clearance between the two gears you mentioned. (I'm recording this here for future reference) I also removed it and re-installed it a few times, just to get the feel of things.

Also removed the reverse idler and the bearings. Tied it all together and have it sitting in a plastic bag to keep it clean.

Should have the 43mm and 27mm sockets tomorrow, so I should be able to actually make some progress.

I did another search on transmission rebuild and found a link to Markesq's tech article on rebuilding. A ton of pics, and it seems to be well written. Following along with that as well as my other sources. Sometimes it gets a bit confusing, but I think if I continue to go slow and methodical and of course heed all the advice here, I should be able to work through this with hardly a problem.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083202233.jpg

Randy

Very nice Randy, the gear housing is next! Take lots of high-res pics so you can figure out where things go at which steps...helped me alot.

Thanks, Matt!!!

I'm hoping thes pics will come in handy when it does come time for putting it back together.

I've been kinda playing with all the parts that I've taken off just so I can get the feel of how it's supposed to go back together. I'm hoping to be able to "remember" putting it all together....

Keep the advice coming, I'm reading and heeding it all!

Randy

Dang. I'll probably need to do the same at some point during the summer. Until I saw this post I was enthused. Now, I'm just queezy.

GSpreeman,

Don't be queezy! I was actually feeling the same way before I started this job, but with the help of everybody here, it's actually coming along.

I don't have a lot of automobile experience, I mean, I've changed out the heads on a 79 Camaro, and also on a 75 Chevy Luv...and also swapped out a few transmissions, so this is the most involved undertaking I've ever done. I worked on military aircraft for 20 years in the Corps, so I'm not inexperienced with the use of tools.

John Walker, Ingo, Matt, Grady, my neighbors, Jay and Josh, and everyone else that's posted here have all been a big help. They all have given great advice and have given it freely...so I'm pretty confident it will turn out a success. GO FOR IT!!! :D

Another thing to do is scour this board for "Transmission Rebuild" threads. I found one yesterday that had a link to an article Marcesq wrote. I printed the article, but I'll post a link to it later so you can read it. I believe Red Beard is going to have an article out soon as well. This board is the best source of information you'll find on this subject, IMHO!

Randy

edit: Here is the link to the article.

Uhuum Randy,

I hope you have access to a big old impact wrench for the two nuts.

If you do the breaker bar method you need to be able to prevent both the input and the output shaft from rotating. You do this by either locking the transmission into two gears (one of them is reverse) or using a special factory tool.

Some have tried to use an old clutch disk instead or other means. One website How NOT to rebuild A Porsche 915 is by far the funniest thing I ever read on this subject.

Ingo

Regardless of how you take it off, you'll need to be able to lock the tranny in 2 gears to get it back on. I tried variations of the clutch disc with no luck. Your best bet is to lock the tranny into the 2 gears at once while it's on your engine stand. Worked like a charm for me.

Ingo, yes indeed, I DO have an impact wrench :D

And I found that page "How not to rebuild a 915" just yesterday. I'm still laughing pretty hard at it. I only wish they would have written about the complete job...hopefully I won't be able to add my own personal experience to it! :eek:

Anyway, got the impact wrench and a 27mm socket. Still haven't been able to locate the 43mm, but I'm still looking. I read in Wayne's book (I believe) that I'll also need a 30mm...got that one too...nobody seems to carry something as big as a 43...Sears, Home Depot, NAPA....none of the Parts chains...but I'm still looking.

Randy

Matt, the article I mentioned above from Marcesq shows detailed instructions on how to do just that. Thanks for the advice for putting it back together!

Randy

Randy,

actually, it is a 41mm socket. A 1-11/16in. (41.275mm) should be close enough. See here at Sears http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00 947784000

actually it's a 1-7/16" socket.

I'll pick up one of each...I can always return the one I don't use. Thanks!!!

Randy

:mad: Okay, now what?

Could it be that my air hose is too long? Got 100 psi on the 27 gal. compressor hooked up to the impact wrench with a 50 ft. hose. The impact wrench is set to "full power" and the nuts are not going anywhere. Actually, I can hold the socket in my hand and squeeze the trigger with the other and I am able to keep the socket from spinning. It impacts the heck out of the socket, but there is no power behind it. The gun is rated at 275 ftlbs of torque and I know I'm not getting anywhere near that. Could it be the hose?

All I am achieving is one beat to heck nut....:eek:

Randy

edit: Compressor is 5 HP, 7.3 CFM @ 90 psi...should be strong enough to drive the wrench, isn't it?

:rolleyes: Guess I just needed to be a bit more patient. Went back out and tried some more and it actually worked! WOO-HOOO! Now to get to removing the rest of the parts between me and first gear!

Randy

deep socket?
 

You go Randy! This is where it starts getting rewarding. Remember too that you can't impact those nuts back on, you HAVE to torque them (I'm sure you already know that) :)

Have you already decided how to remove the input shaft nut? You'll need like a 12" 1 & 7/8" deep well socket to do that (I think that was the size) and some ALUMINUM vice jaws to hold the shaft. If you 'd like, I can mail you mine if you promise to return it. It worked great, just let me know. You'll need that thing VERY soon and it's VERY difficult to remove the nut without it.

If you want it fast, I can overnight it to you for shipping cost and you can snail-mail it back to me.

Let me know.

So the nut is 36mm, right? The one on the input shaft were you need an ultradeep socket is an 41.

Ingo

The castellated nut on the main shaft was a 27mm. The nut on 5th Gear I was able to get with a 1 7/16. It felt a little sloppy on the nut, but it definitely did the trick!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083286169.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083286186.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083286201.jpg

This is where I sit right now...(I've also pulled that bushing off of 5th gear as well.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083286218.jpg

Just trying to work off the intermediate cover, now. I believe this is where the deep-well socket will come into play, if I read correctly. Wayne calls for a 30mm deep-well

I know I'm not supposed to pry on the mating surfaces, and I have no intention to...but are there any tricks to removing the housing. Tried using a piece if wood as a chisel, and tried banging on it but I'm not sure how hard I can safely hit it. The last thing I wanna do is mess it up. Any ideas?

Randy

There were 10 nuts...not 9!!!:o

Anyway, more progress pics...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083288226.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083288247.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083288263.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083288282.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083288296.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083288310.jpg

Randy

Call it a hunch, but my guess is that these aren't supposed to look like this...

The first two:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083291333.jpg

And the third...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083291385.jpg

Randy

yeah, looks like the hub is broken too. next, remove the two 17mm wrench size bolts that are next to each other in the side of the differential housing, and fish out the springs and detents under them. (magnet). remove all the nuts and lockwashers that hold the bearing retainer plates to the diff housing. shift the mainshaft into 3rd gear, (that's up, toward the end of the shaft). be sure the pinion shaft is in neutral when you do that. leave the forks and shift shafts alone. wrap your hands around both shafts and forks with the trans bellhousing down on a table or the floor, and wiggle the whole works out.

John, that advice was right on time. Came in to confirm my next step and you already had it sitting here. THANKS!

With that said, both shafts are out.

You can see in this pic that about half the dog teeth are missing.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083294534.jpg

How do I get this thing apart so I can replace them? Also, what else should I look for that may need replacing?

Thanks!!!

Randy

Re: deep socket?
 

Hey, Matt! :)

I appreciate the offer. Marines really do take care of their own! I believe the socket you're talking about is the 30mm that Wayne calls for in the 101 Projects book. I have that...the thing I don't have would be the Aluminum vice jaws. If I find I need them, I'll just see about picking them up. I'm figuring the money I'm saving by doing this myself is money to be spent on tools. this way, I'm prepared if I need to do it again...or even better yet...if any Pelicans need help! :D

Randy

This has got to be one of the more riveting threads in memory. Can't wait for the next stage.
Btw, when you say half the dog teeth are missing--where exactly? Could you point it out on the photo?
Thanks, and good luck!

The one I'm talking about is a 1 5/8" deep socket, not sure what mm that is. The input shaft has a nut which is that size. See thread below. You may be able to remove the nut without the socket, using a big-a$$ wrench, but it has to be torqued on assembly and a wrench just wont do it. Offer still stands if you need to borrow the tool. You'll know what I mean when you take apart the input shaft to replace synchros and such. PM me if you need it.

edit: it's a 41mm nut, not a 30mm.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=151717&highlight=input+ shaft+homemade

fold a couple of shop rags for padding and lay them on the floor. preferably a concrete floor. grab the pinion shaft and firmly pound it against the rags a few times. inertia will remove the stack of gears from the shaft. (pinion gear up, open end of the shaft down). don't freak out with this method, everyone does it. i use a soft steel plate from my press instead of rags. the shaft is harder than the plate, so no damage is done. keep the pieces in order as they come off. the mainshaft is done the same way, after the nut is removed. a nut removal tool can be made by cutting the proper size socket in half, and welding a length of pipe between them, as long as the ID is large enough to allow the tool to fit over the end of the shaft. or clamp an old clutch disc in a vise to hold the shaft, and use a large pipe or crescent wrench.
the exception to this is with early pinion shafts that have a speedo drive gear on the end. do not pound these. instead, use a press.

Hey, Beethoven! Thanks for the interest!

In the pic I posted above, all of the dog teeth have been broken off. The good teeth are on the other side. The area circled in yellow shows how flush they are. The dog tooth circled in red (on the right side of the pic) is actually there...it's the last of the good ones on the other side.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083325488.jpg

Here is a picture of 5th gear showing how the dogs are supposed to look.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083325530.jpg

And, even though this gear is bad, it shows how the dog teeth should stick out.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083325640.jpg

Randy

That dog needs dentures!
 

Man, that's some serious damage...good thing you didnt drive the car any further.

:eek:

Definitely a case where the dog's "bark" was worse than it's bite! :D

Randy