Broken head stud, now what?

[GrindingGears]

Took my car in for a valve adjustment today. One broken stud, cylinder 4.



I kind of figured I had a broken stud. The most obvious reason was the awful noise I was hearing at and above 3500 rpm. Sounded like...um...a....well...a broken stud hitting a valve cover.

So my wrench told me:
1) "Drive your car like a granny, don't go above 3000rpm unless you have to."
2) "The longer you wait, the noiser it will get, the more money it will cost to fix."
3) "See that SC over there, we just fixed his 6 broken studs for $3k".

First of all, is this sound advice? Anything else to add?

Secondly, doing this rebuild myself is out of the question, no time, no desire. But I'm thinking I could save some dinero getting the parts myself (wrench has no problem with that). Where the hell do I start? What upgrades should I do?

I'll have time to use the search function, but for now if you have any input I'd appreciate it.

Do I get a member card now or something? Broken Cylinder Head Stud Club?



I still love the little bietch.

EDIT: 127k, '83 SC, stock

[yelcab1]

Knock on wood, 182K miles on my car and studs are all in good shape.

Good decent advise by your mechanic. What he forgot to tell you (or you forgot to tell us) is to get it fixed as soon as you can afford it.

[ubiquity0]

Bummer
I imagine they probably could just go in & replace ALL the lower studs for 3000, but you've got to ask yourself if there's other work that should be done 'while they're in there'. I'd think pretty carefully about valve guides at the very least.

[john walker's workshop]

if it has 125K or more, i would recommend calling the job a valve grind plus head stud repair while you're in there. a valve grind alone can go $3K. add studs, rod bearings, rod bolts, rings, etc., and it'll get close to $4K.

[markwemple]

I'm in the middle of it and should be able to do the whole top end deeal for about $2k (doing all my own work of course). The heads alone were about $1k but that included seals, guides and exhaust valves. Done by EMS and look great! The rest, including a full clutch job, should be no more than $1k and everyone I spoke to told me that at 130k, I didn't have to worry about the bottom end yet. Mine is an '82 sc.

[GrindingGears]

Does the case need to be cracked if EDM is required?

I need to get wayne's rebuild book to educate myself some more...

[surflvr911sc]

Major bummer Philip, sorry to hear about this.

Yes, the case will most likely need to be split if EDM is required but chances are that you wont need it. There is plenty of stud left to get out the one from the pic.

There are ways to save money here, and still have somebody else do the engine work. You could have an engine drop party, I'll be there if I can. Little things like that to prep the engine could easily save as much as $1k.

[Doug Zielke]

Please tell us the location of the broken stud.

[chrisp]

If you are in the $4k range already as John Walker excellently outlines then I would (and did) go another $2k and do the bottom end as well.

I was in the exact same boat 3 months ago.

As far as parts are concerned:
1.) Get wayne's book and all the parts you need will be listed in there. In about an hour you can make a massive spreadsheet listing each item with Porsche part number.
2.) Save all of this trouble and just use Wayne's engine wizard. Skip the first section on tools and materials and just pick all the parts that apply. Then get 'em all through Wayne. You'll be all set.

I saved about $500 by dropping the engine myself and reinstalling it myself. All it cost me was two rentals of a $35 engine crane to get it in/out of my pickup. Then I needed to drive to the shop and have them set CO and timing.

[yelcab1]

Originally posted by chrisp
If you are in the $4k range already as John Walker excellently outlines then I would (and did) go another $2k and do the bottom end as well.

Boy, how expenses can migrate. $6K is 50% more than $4K. The might-as-well syndrome is running high on this one.

I say, pick a budget, add some buffer, and stick to that. Or, you might-as-well replace the whole car while-your're-in-there. There is a limit somewhere.

[chrisp]

Yeah but $2k is only 33% of $6k

I guess it all comes down to whether you want to spend more money (culmulative) to do it in multiple steps.

You're right. It all comes down to budget. I didn't have the funds in my budget this year (the broken stud was unexpected) but I made the room becasue I prefer to pay $6k now doing it all once versus $7k-$8k to do it in multiple steps within a few years of each other.

[markwemple]

I'm with yelcab1 on this big time. The bottom end on an sc is very strong and, unless something tells you otherwise, don't worry about it. Wayne's book does a very good job at walking you through the process. I say do the top end on your own and save the $$ for the clutch work, etc. that will need to be done "while you're at it."

[masraum]

I've been redlining my car daily. It could be a problem, but I don't think you've got to drive like a granny.

[competentone]

Originally posted by GrindingGears
Secondly, doing this rebuild myself is out of the question, no time, no desire. But I'm thinking I could save some dinero getting the parts myself (wrench has no problem with that). Where the hell do I start? What upgrades should I do?

I'd suggest you think long and hard about "getting the parts yourself" and having your mechanic install them.

You could have "warrenty" issues if there are any problems with the work. If your mechanic chooses the parts, he'll have difficulty charging you labor again if a part--or related replaced part--fails. If you have choosen the parts, he can always argue the part was "second rate" to what he would have used and now it is not his responsibility to fix it.

If your mechanic is the "expert" he should know better than you what is needed and what parts represent the best "value" (ie. the quality/price comparison). If he is reputable, there really should not be that much difference in total costs whether you get the parts or he does. And the fact that you are saying you "don't know where to start" leaves me thinking you might do better having your mechanic get the parts you need--of course a "cooperative" effort could work; he checks with his usual parts suppliers and you see how much you can save if you buy from Pelican!

In my business (building repair), I "cringe" a little if a customer tells me he has "everything I need" and he just wants me to fix something. The only time I really like to tell the customer to make the decision about "parts/materials" is if there are style or asthetic considerations. If the work involves an "upgrade" the customer needs to be "in the decision-making loop"--if it is just a "repair" type job, I almost always prefer to choose the parts/materials on my own.

Of course, I strive to give my customers excellent long-term value so I choose parts/materials that reflect that. A lot of people in the business (in auto repair too) only think "short term" so they'll get the cheapest parts with little thought about quality. My point: You have to know who you're working with and what their attitudes are.

Good luck,
(and I think driving your 911 "like a granny" is a poor option)

--Joe

[GrindingGears]

Point taken, thanks Joe.

[yelcab1]

This is why I do the work myself. No space, make the space. No time, make the time. No money, well ... you're schrewed there.

I will take the responsibilities for my own mistakes.

[GrindingGears]

Last night I was lying in bed and a evil evil thought popped into my mind. Sell the 911, get a hybrid sedan.

Uhh oh....at least I didn't think of getting a Subaru ala Nostatic.

[nostatic]

you can have a lot more fun in a WRX wagon than a hydrid sedan

[GrindingGears]

I know i know, i was just teasing. But do you think we're ever going to let you live it down?

[ASD]

My 78 sc has has 3 broken studs for years. I had lost a job right at the same time as we discovered them so I couldn't do much about it.
Meanwhile it runs great, and you would never know it has any problems. I drive it normally. although it get mostly weekend usage.
Not recommending this to anyone, but mine has been ok with it.