why do u guys hate 996 (most of you anyway)

[d.s]

hi there guys

this is a serious question?? i dont meen to insult you or the cars you have but i own a 03 4s and i love it

but i also LOVE older porsches and my friend is lookint at a 73.5 coupe for me in CA at this time

but i really have to ask why are you guys always talking how bad how nasty the 996 are??

yes they are water cooled so what? they are VERY nice to drive and very comfy with a proper a/c that works and nice seats and they are cheap to run... i just cant understand why?

yesterday i saw and sat in a 84 911 and i must admit i wanst feeling as if i HAD to buy or anything i really had a look at it for about 5 mins and i was out of his house

the gear wasnt nice AT all i hated it, it was BAD ( worst EVER even) iv driven alot of nice cars but also a couple ofr cheap ol ones and this was by far the worst, i didnt expect that from a porsche was the car i tried a lemon?? dog??

im not trying to insult anyone really but i just want to understand thats all (i had owned driven a 356 C coupe) it was better

anyway guys any feed back would be great thanks (but not insults )

1. Looks. It doesn't look like a 911. In general it doesn't look as sexy as it should.

2. Sound. In the words of Homer Simpson: Boooooooring. GT3 is ok, but that's not good enough unless it will be sold for the price of a basic 996.

3. Interior. Again looks is non exotic. Too boring. Also too far from what Porsche has been known for in more than 3 decades.

4. Quality vs the earlier cars??? The earlier cars feel more well put togehter.


I guess the 996 is too much of a compromise.

[on-ramp]

doesn't the 996 drive more like a Lexus than a true Porsche?

that being ture, I would put it into the "luxury sports car" category rather than the "exotic sports car" one.

[jbripps]

Hi there,

Well, I own an '85 Carrera, and I happen to love the 996's too. I actually have been "shopping" around for one for quite some time. By the way, I think you drove a "lemon" if your 356 was better.

I think that a lot of the slighted comments on this board are a result of Porsche "changing" their tradition with producing a water cooled 911, that's all. It's different, and much more refined an auto than it's predecessors. On that same note, it is a bit more "plasticky" than the older cars. It seems cheaper with the workmanship and quality on the interior. Just park next to an older Carrera and compare the way the doors shut. The older car will snap closed, very secure sounding, while the 996 sounds, well, like an Oldsmobile's door. Very heavy and not as secure. It almost sounds as though the guts in the door shake when it closes.

I have driven both, and they are different creatures. With the older 911, you have much more of a role in actually driving, in ALL aspects. With the 996, the car drives itself. There isn't much skill needed for highly spirited driving. Maybe that's a good thing, but in many minds, it takes the "sport" out of the sportscar.

Personally, for me, I love the feel of my current car, and I love the way the 996 drives as well. It's an amazing machine, and very advanced. I think it's that simple. It's all a matter of choice and taste.

Regards,

[azasadny]

Maybe I'm weird, but I love all Porsches, just some more than others! I picked the car I did because of personal preference and I don't deny anyone else the right to pick "their" car. Each car has points for/against, it just depends upon what you like and what you value in a car. I happen to prefer Targas, but I still like Coupes and Cabriolets. I love my 911, but I still enjoy seeing a well-cared for 356, 964, 993, 996, 928, 944, 968 etc... Just my .02 worth!

[addictionMS]

With the 996, the car drives itself. There isn't much skill needed for highly spirited driving.

that is the big myth, there really is as much skill, maybe more, if you push a 996 to the limit, it is very subtle in its feedback, and requires much faster reactions and finer skills.

The reason for the myth is the 996 generally has a much higer limit, so few ever get to it, it is almost impossible on the road, and scary fast on the track.

Think of it like a F1 car, most F1 drivers don't seem to be doping much but turning the wheel, until they get really close to the limit, then their skill to correct is out of this world. Most fo us could easily dirve an F1 car at 70-80% and go way faster than we ever thought possible, the same reason guest drivers get so close to the race times, it is being on the edge in a refined car that is hard, not sitting below the edge.

BTW I love my 996, and my 1970 911T 3.2/915, different, but both are loved.

Jim

[ljonespwc]

Look who you are asking. You're not going to get the same set of responses from a bunch of early- to mid-year 911 owners as you would from the group of 996 owners on the Rennlist board. If you're looking for validation, you won't get it here.

That said, if someone was trying to get opinions of different body type 911s, the best people to ask are those who have owned the various permutations. There is a lot of conjecture and myth that gets stirred up here by the die hard 2L - 3.2L fans when it comes to the later models--many of whom have not ever lived with a 993 or 996. It's your choice whether or not to listen to opinions based on looks and 5-minute test drives, or on more reliable ownership details and feedback.

I am a big fan of all types of 911. I have owned a 1984 coupe and a 1988 Club Sport. But right now I'm looking for rear seat space, amenities, and modern looks that only a 993 or 996 can provide. I was not the biggest fan of the 996 "look"--in its standard, somewhat mundane form. But with a lowered suspension, the right set of wheels, and maybe the GT3 Aero kit, I am becoming a true convert.

[nostatic]

I drove a friends 996 a few weeks back and it was a nice car. But totally different than my SC. It still sounded like a flat 6, and still squated down in the back when I hit the loud pedal, but beyond that it was much more like my wife's A8 as opposed to a go kart. And even though it only had 18K miles on it, it didn't feel as tight as my car.

[sundaypunch]

Well, first of all you are in the 911 forum, not the 996 forum on this site. By nature you have enthusiasts that gravitate toward the older cars. I like the simplicity and DIY nature of the early cars. Ideally I would have a track-prepped early car that is light and quick. In addition I'd have a 993 for comfort on long trips.

I personally don't like the looks of the 996 nearly as much as the 993's. I also think that going to a water cooled engine takes away some of the character that makes a 911 unique.

[Jim Garfield]

My biggest gripe with them, apart from what I think is bland styling, is the size. I don't know why it and the Boxster had to be so big. Look at one parked next to an earlier car- they're huge.

They look like somebody you see at a high school reunion, you kind of recognize the face but they've put on 70lbs.

[VincentVega]

I wasnt a big fan of the early 996's either, they just look too plain. The new rounder healights are a great improvement, as is the GT3 kit. I wasnt a true convert though until I did a session in my instructors 996 at VIR though. Wow, very impressive. The limits are much higher than my SC and it has sooo much more power I was hooked. IF I ever get bored with the SC I'll seriously consider a 996.

[layzee]

The early 996 never looked nice and really only with the GT3 kit and updated front lights do they look the part.

My biggest gripe is with the cost cutting on the engine on the C2/4, and the whole invalidated warranty if its been tracked BS. Not what a Porsche should be. I'd love either mk1 or mk2 GT3 though, awesome cars.

[FenderGuy]

I think the 996 is the best Porsche, your asking air cooled guys if they like a water cooled car. Most hate anything other then air cooled, period. With that said If I had my choice and the $$ I would rather get a 996

[D Hanson]

Originally posted by on-ramp
doesn't the 996 drive more like a Lexus than a true Porsche?

that being ture, I would put it into the "luxury sports car" category rather than the "exotic sports car" one.

This may be true except for the tubro. The turbo actually has enough get up and go to be scarey at times. I, however, don't buy the Lexus commit. I don't see how anyone who had driven a Lexus and a 996 could make such a comparison. A Lexus is at the other end of the spectrum. there are new models out there that may be more comparable to the 996, but Lexus is not one of them. They are more a like a floaty Cadilac in my opinion.

The 996 feels more like a sport car in terms of true accelleration, handling and braking. I just think sports cars have evolved and people today generally demand more comfort and use friendliness. The 996 is definitely a true sports car by todays standards and it is fun to drive.

[ChrisBennet]

On the track they are very impressive. I think I could go faster with a 996 on street tires than my Carrera on stickies. Like a lot of people, the looks don't do it for me until you get to the wider cars (GT3, Turbo, etc).
I have nothing against water cooling.

The quality issue is not a myth (dead last in JD Power survey of initial quality) though Porsche has been really good about replacing motors. Last time I was at the dealer I didn't see any cars with motors out of them so things may be improving. A year ago I saw something like 3 motorless cars at once.

Your basic 911 used to be track ready with a true dry sump engine. Now you have to get a Turbo or GT3 to get that. The current 996 motor is a disposable motor that is less than half the price of the 993 motor it replaced. If you run it with slicks you void the warrantee.
-Chris

[no substitute]

I like 'em all. Change is the natural order of the world. Some folks prefer the old things. I like the older automobiles of my youth, but the new ones are fantastic too. Take the new mini. The old one has legendary status, but the new one is far quicker, and probably handles better too (the old one still looks better to me, though). To paraphrase a Willie Nelson tune, "They're not wrong, they're just different".
AddictionMS is right on the money. The cars are so good these days that one is able to go much faster with ease. It's that last few tenths that are difficult to come by. With higher speeds, 7-8 tenths and on up, is much faster than is even remotely reasonable on the street (you do the math). Folks hereabouts are always spending money to improve handling. With the newer cars, Porsche does it for them, and does a better job of it, like it or not. Styling is subjective, but wind tunnel factors have to be considered here.

Why do we hate...?
Hate -- for lack of a better word -- is good.
Hate is right. Hate works. Hate clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Hate, in all of its forms -- hate for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind.

Kidding of course, always thought Gekko's speech was a hoot.

[D Hanson]

I think the JD power survey was more Cayenne related. I have had an 02 and an 04 996 and my 996 TT and never had a single problem with any of them. I had a check engine light come on once after installing a Fadpseed air kit, but it was reset and it never came back on.

Our Cayenne has had a lot of little issues, but they all have been related to the PCM and the stereo. The PCM has a nasty habbit of resetting itself and the stereo will cut out. We have had the PCM replaced and an amp replaced. These are issues that affect the JD powers survey, but the issues did not effect the driveability of the Cayenne.

[Glasgow 911SC]

A while back there were a few discussions about where Porsche was taking their cars on a UK forum. There was criticism of the fact that the GT3RS had cup holders and wasn't raw enough to be an RS. The guy who had 1 on order replied by saying they were never that stripped out or raw. That was reserved for the RSR.

So the standard car of old relates to the C2/C4
The RS relates to the GT3RS
The RSR=RSR.
That leaves a spare car in the form of the GT3 (non-RS).

I think Porsche could make the 996 more '911' if the standard cars were rethought and the GT3 basically became the norm. This would mean no more shared Boxster engine, higher powered, dry sump base model cars.

[ted]

Originally posted by jbripps
With the 996, the car drives itself. There isn't much skill needed for highly spirited driving. Maybe that's a good thing, but in many minds, it takes the "sport" out of the sportscar.

For a 996 this was not a good thing...
2003 996 TT in serious trouble.

[Steve 82SC]

I had occasion to trade cars with a friend of mine for an extended period of time. He needed my family car for some room and gave me his 2000 911. I used the car as I would my own for a week. I came away very impressed. It does not require the same type of invovlement that my 82 911 does, but it is, nonetheless, an extremely capable car. It does everything well from easy rush-hour commuting to excelling in the twisties.

I'd venture to say that if you went into a new-car Porsche showroom today and looked at and drove a new Porsche that was actually a brand new 88 Carrera, you'd be terribly dissapointed. Not dissapointed in the Porsche per se, but dissapointed in the respect that the manufactuer had not kept step with other car companies.

Cars in general are just better today in all respects, Porsche included. Nobody will be able to do a thing about the evolutionary process and direction that automakers are taking today. They are not going to step back in time to satisfy what they deem as a minority group of enthusiasts. I'd love to have a nice used 996 and could probably find one that I could afford. However, in order to do so, I'd have to give up my SC and a number of motocycles and the 996 would end up being my primary and only mode of transportation. Ahh, the problems of the middle-class.
Steve