Help Please, Need a Suspension Guru!!

[rbcsaver]

I will try and be as susinct as possible, but I need help!
My 84,911 with 128K miles, was new to me in 1995. Never in an accident,that I know of.
A couple of years after buying the car, I had it lowered. The Porsche dealer stated that they had one heck of a time, "was the Right(passenger's) Rear(RR) trailing arm bent?" I didn't even know exactly what the training arm was back then. New Bilsteins, all 4's at some point. A few years later, the left rear T-Bar snapped coming out of turn 5 on the Jefferson Circuit, Summit Point. No spins, contact etc. Trailered the car home. I had used 930 T-Bars(26 or 28s) installed and another alignment. On alignment, they lowered the car more, to the height on the picture. Again posed the question about a bent trailing arm.There is no damage aparent to same, so again I attributed the issue to same dealer, same technician (in reality,perhaps not the same guy) It has been pretty good, though tends to (prematurely) wear the inner aspects of front and rear tires. Negative camber is may understanding. Wheels are 7s and 8s X 16" (plus spacers) 944's(sold to me as 911 wheel) when I was less informed, shall we say.
Over the year I have personally performed the following suspension "upgrades" with parts from Pelican and Performance.
(no significance of the order)
1. Bump steer kit (Perfomance)
2. Turbo tie Rod Kit
3. OEM 930 F&R Sway bars and OEM rubber bushings
4. 22 mm Front T-Bars
Then front alignment was adjusted by a local Non-Porsche shop after the above was done and all seemed OK. With limited miles, I noticed that the inner aspect of the rears was, again prematurely worn-out and required new tires to pass inspection. The fronts were starting to wear more as well on the inner aspect. So I put 245/45/16 Dunlops on the rears and 225/50/16 on the front. I noticed rubbing on the RF side. I measured the wheel well height and noticed the the Right side of the car was 1-1.75" lower than the left. You can see how low my car is from the pics (***note that the pics are with 225s rear and 205's front.)
I had planned to replace the ball joints, so I proceeded with that bear of a project. I dropped the car at a different dealer last night.

The bad news today:
I will attach the e-mails I received from the dealer in quotes after the specs I received from the shop manager with the *BEST* numbers that they could get:

Spec REAR Camber: -1.2 degrees

Mine: RR: -3.9 degrees, LR: -1.7 degrees

Spec FRONT Camber: -0.2 degrees

Mine: RF: -.7 degrees, LF: -0.4 degrees

Rear Toe: Spec 0 degrees

Mine: RR -.12 degrees, LR: +1.03

The shop manager did not know how much I need to increase the bump steer, which he explained as a lack of knowledge about the older Porsches. Keep in mind that it cost me $240 today for them to level my car, keeping a similar height in the pics but now a "confirmation" that my RR trailing are "maybe" bent. Also a question about my bump steer kit from Performance being high enough..though they couldn't give me an appropriate shim width. How much more (if at all) can I shim from the Stock Bump Steer kit?
He mentioned an adjustable trailing arm kit which would "compensate and allow for fine tuning" of the bent side, but it seemed again like his knowledge base on the older P-cars is small.

"Front....tie rods are on a major upward angle.....very bad....should raise the front rack and straighten these out. This is what is giving you very bad bump-steer and the wondering effect....cause it is....the front end just wonders."

and

" Also, the RR wheel alignment is so far off, it appears that the trailing arm is bent. The only way to be sure would be to disassemble the torsion bar assy. and return the ride height to stock to verify to proper angles, this will be costly. The other option is the installation of an after market rear trailing arm kit, this may allow more range of motion for fine tuning the alignment. We were able to raise the rr to be even with lr, but the rr camber and toe is way out."

Please some Help and Suggestions from the great Steve Weiner and others on how to proceed and get my Street Car with an occasional DE/AX event. Unfortunately, I'm not in Oregon, But PA. ARRGH!

regards,
Steve
rbcsaver@ptd.net

[hobieboy]

Steve,
Your picture didn't come thru so not sure what ride height you are running with. If your tie rods are at an extreme angle, then you'll likely need the ERP bump steer kit to correct it; or live with it, or raise the car.

As far as alignment settings, for street/DE combo, the following are common - front camber -1.5 degree, toe "0 pressed" / 12' toe in, max (~6.5) casters, and -1.75 degree camber in the rear with 0 toe.

Did you know what settings your alignment was when you did it last time? Your Tbar pop out incident might have bent something? I don't think stock rear trailing arm will allow you -4 degree of camber ever...

[89911]

I think you need a better shop! Either it is bent or not and it won't take Bruce Anderson to figure this out. Especially if it is as far off as they claim. These aluminum arms are also not as prone to bending as steel, so I would think a sizable impact would cause it more to break. Too bad you aren't close to Pittsburgh. I could lead you to a shop that know there shiazit!

[rbcsaver]

PatrickT,
Sorry about the pic. It should be attached to this reply. I do NOT know what my prior alignment settings were. As I recall though, the 2nd alignment and unexpected increased lowering were attempts by the dealer to bring the wheels into alignment. Again, I was much more ignorant then, though I remain light years away from anything resembling alignment/suspension mechanic now.

How do I fix this problem, as the rear tires on the car when new to me (1995) suffered from extremem neg camber wear to the cords, as have each subsequent pair, though not to the cords. This was apparently an issue prior to the snapping rear T-Bar.
But that is history.
How do I fix the alignment, equal height and corner balance issues.

What is an ERP bump steer kit? Where to get one and how much is the cost. If It's just thicker washers and nuts as in the prior $40 kit, then I can make one.
How much elevation can be done on the steering rack?

[Chuck Moreland]

The rack spacers kits move the rack up as far as possible. Sheet metal prevents further raising. The ERP bump steer kit replaces the tie rod end with one that spaces it out, leveling the tie rod. You can use the two kits in combination.

As for your alignment woes, I'd suggest you find someone who is experienced with 911 suspension alignments. Experience makes all the difference here. A knowledgable person can do a few tricks that the manuals don't tell you about, and get much more range especially on the rear.

It's possible you have a bent trailing arm, but highly unlikely that both are bent. That your guy can't either side in spec is an indicator that the problem may not be a bent arm. The rear adjustment technique is particularly perplexing to the average alignment shop guy.

There are no aftermarket trailing arms. If you have a bent one, source a replacement from a pcar boneyard.

[dickster]

Did you know what settings your alignment was when you did it last time? Your Tbar pop out incident might have bent something? I don't think stock rear trailing arm will allow you -4 degree of camber ever...

i currently have around -4 degrees.

what height are you at. i have 24.5/25 r/f which seems to be about as low as you want to go. my tie rods are also very angled and the steering not great (its ok, but a bit too lively) - i bought the erp kit (not yet fitted) and that should be enough for you.

i would also try a porsche shop with the relevant experience for the alignment - i tried a ferrari specialist once and they told me the camber wasnt adjustable!

[Early_S_Man]

Let me get this straight ...

The Porsche dealer service advisor/writer ASKS YOU if the trailing arm was bent??? Big red flag there ... THEY have the measuring fixtures to determine whether the arms are bent or not!!!

What did the lackey tech do before working on your car ... change oil on 944s?

It seems to me that you need to find a shop that knows pre-90 911s ...