Any pics on how this was welded? Curious for my own DIY install.
I think I get the basic concept, but would like to see it with my own eyes.

Jason

Shawn, thanks a million for the offer. I ordered some extra pieces of carpet for that area and am putting the quarter panels away in a box. Pics coming later tonite.

Sorry I got into this thread so late. Nice job on the pictures. I have a few words of advice. Take no offense if I may get a bit 'direct', but I am a parent myself and figured I will have to say it clearly. ;)

If some rednecks haul their offspring around that way, even if it is legal, it doesn't mean it is safe??? :rolleyes:

My advice is to keep your kids out of the back of that car. No offense, but in my eyes it is a death trap. Have you seen movies of what happens to bodies in serious impacts? There is no telling where those little heads will fly, even in a good kid seat with 5 point harness. Would you be able to live with yourself if anything happened to the kids in the back seat after your modifications and a T-bone or head on collision?

Another point I want to add is that the foam you have chosen is not going to protect you or passengers significantly from an impact that occurs in an accident. This is true with or without helmet. It will keep you from bumping your head when getting in and out the car, that's it. You should have put high density, high impact foam instead. Summit sells it too, btw. It is three times the price of the insulation foam. ;) It is very hard to the touch but crumples at high impact and can truly eat up some energy that you'd otherwise get straight to the head. It is similar to the foam you find in a helmet.

That said, the high impact, high density stuff also looks much better. You don't get that Bratwurst / Sausage look with all the links tied off nicely using zip ties. :D The high density foam also has a smooth surface and comes with double sided adhesive. So you only need to zip tie it in a few places to double up.

The issue of bars and cages has been discussed a lot and you may find a lot of info here or on rennlist. I just wanted to point out again that a rollbar or cage does NOT add safety to your daily driving. The opposite is the case, especially because of your head!

The installation of a rollbar only makes sense if you spend more time on the track with your car than driving around town. If you drive your car daily and go DE every couple of months, you would be better off with a harness bar because chances that you get in a collision in town with your 3 point and no helmet on are higher than a collision at the track.

Hope this helps! Stay safe! SmileWavy

George

I'm not gonna post any pics now..........http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/shake.gif

Cmon' Zeke!

SHOW US YOUR BRATWURST LINKS!!! http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/wat3.gif

George

yeah! Show us your death trap!

by the way, is this the high density padding? PO installed this stuff in some areas and the bratwurst links in others.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1087447013.jpg

My summit stuff looks a bit different. The important thing is that the padding is SFI rated. Your stuff is. Here it is along with some more safety information and why most serious race orgs now require this foam over the bratwurst stuff:

http://www.rallylights.com/BSCI/Roll_Cage_Padding.asp

George

I must agree with every point that George said. There is better roll bar padding and zip ties aren't the friendliest to tissue. Roll bars aren't safe on the street and too much horsepower can get you in trouble. I don't take my children for highway passes in my MG or on full out launches in my drag car. That said, and we all know its true, we are driving old unsafe cars!

Don't flame me, but its all a calculated and acceptable risk factor. I chose to drive old cars with no air bags and such over a 7 air bag new Volvo. You did too, but then again how many Harley riderss did you pass today without helmets. Its America, and I don't mean that lightly, in that we get to make choices of what is acceptable risks to ourselves. No, I don't like seatbelt laws either for anyone but minors. They don't make you a safer driver only help you stay alive. YES, I wear mine...I do race so wouldn't think to not. NO, I don't like the government telling me to though. We do our best to eliminate natural selection and Darwinism....but don't get me started on that.

Long story short, these are not the safest cars no matter how you look at it. Mass is hard to overcome even with great German engineering. Lets all make conscious decisions with safety in mind. Be careful for our children and just realize that if you hit a HD you win and if you hit an Excursion you loose. I'd still take a Porsche over a Jeep, Geo, Yugo, or any other ecobox out there. Just a reality check on our soap boxes we are tempted to get on once in a while.

First of all this thread is about installing a roll bar. Not about what you would or would not do. No offense taken.

I dont think Rednecks are the only buyers of Jeep Wranglers. Have you priced a Jeep Wrangler lately? I am pretty sure Jeep Wranglers pass the government crash tests. I am also relativly certain they dont have the super gee whiz magic roll bar foam.

As far as being LESS safe, I dont see how a roll bar that is completly behind the seats is more of a safety hazard to me? But it is America so you can say pretty much whatever you want.

There are plenty of people on this board with roll bars and even full cages with door bars in thier street cars. So why me? Why doesnt everyone jump at the chance to tell certain other people the dangers of full roll cages with door bars when they post threads and pictures of thier cars?

And as far as not liking how it looks? I dont care! I posted this thread so people can see what it takes to put in a roll bar, not to get opinions on asthetics.

As far as the kids in the back? Well I just sealed a deal on a set of Momo RSGT seats. So no more worries.

Zeke,
Post pics. To heck with 'em! :D

You know, all this safety stuff was debated EXTENSIVELY on another thread just 2 weeks ago. Here we go again. Piss on it. A guy can't show his accomplishments w/o being trashed.

For the record, and since the well has already been poisoned, I don't see the danger in a roll bar where all componets are well behind the driver and the seat is reinforced or braced. BUT, I will have to agree that once the thing is in there, the rear area is not as safe. How unsafe I cannot say. And that is where the trouble is here, WHO THE ***** KNOWS for sure what is safe or not? Some common sense should be employed, that's all. And that's all folks.

Whoa Whoa Whoa PEOPLE! Not ONLY redneck people drive the kids in the back of Jeeps!

Why do they always get the credit?

Guess im a redneck boys!!! It's been brought to my attention that my Jeep Wranger is only good for parkin in front of the "double wide" and tailgating out of the back for a little hootinanny.

Did i mention the Shotgun mount on the rollbar in the back? I did a real fancy install and have documented the gun rack install with beautiful pictures but i have a problem . The camera i shot with was my great granddaddies old box camera .... NOT SURE WHERE TO GET IT DEVELOPED TO POST :( ....

*********!!

Great work Shawn Glad to see it all mounted!!!

I have a Jeep.

(since this thread is usless at this point)

And, it has a ROLL BAR and a back seat! Ohmygawd, how bad am I now?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1087487515.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1087487570.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1087487614.jpg

Okay. I am going to make a lame attempt to get this back on track.

Group hug?;)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1087487806.jpg

Oh oh

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1087487884.jpg

I actually had to stay home from work today because I jacked up my shoulder putting the rollbar in the 911 yesteday afternoon from about 4:00 to 7:00 PM. There's really not much to post about the installation. It's really a fairly easy job (3 hrs.), but it's a little physical, LOL.

I see where he gets his handle.

Well, since I'm here waiting for a bunch of Motrin to kick in.........

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1087489286.jpg

I used a chisel to square up the radius on the floor to seat the pad better. You know how I like my BFH's and chisels. :D

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1087489337.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1087489374.jpg

I bought new grade 8 hardware and some iron washers as I did not get the underside backing plate for the braces. I bought the bar used. I did get the ones for the main hoop.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1087489406.jpg

I'm not real happy with this, but I can't do much about it today until the shoulder feels better. Reaching around and tightening these bolts is what got me. If you have another person for some of this, it would be easier. I always work alone and sometimes I pay the price.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1087489438.jpg

Hammer / all:

I thoutght I clearly said why I was posting:

"Sorry I got into this thread so late. Nice job on the pictures. I have a few words of advice. Take no offense if I may get a bit 'direct', but I am a parent myself and figured I will have to say it clearly. ;)"

And it wasn't me who started the safety discussion! That started much earlier, the Jeep comment was made twice and I couldn't ignore it. And the main point is the kids in the back seat with a rollbar. The driver / passenger discussion has been covered elsewhere and I mention that.

You can't post pics of your project and not get comments that go beyond "hey, great pics, awesome job?" I sure welcome any comment when showing my projects, I expect it actually. That's why it is a discussion board, right? If you want to 'show how to put in a rollbar', you will have to listen to people brabble about different types of foam, safety and why you don't bolt it on top of the carpet.

So, no, the intention wasn't to piss into your cornflakes and step on every Jeep owner's toes. Of course there is many wannabe Rednecks with office jobs buying them today. It's like Harleys! Sorry if I offended any of them! Do we have to be politically correct now EVERYWHERE? :D

I think, I must have struck a chord, everyone getting all defensive. That was the goal. I had warned you right there in the beginning of my post that it may be strong worded to get your attention and the point across. I should have taken it easy on the bratwurst comment, but even that discussion (leather with zippers covers!???) was started earlier! So, why not comment on aesthetics? What is there more to a roll bar install then safety and aesthetics?

Group Hug!

Take care now,

George

That's right! I'm a wanabee Redneck!

My damn neck keeps turning dark brown though, I got to do somethign about that.

See, you need to lay off the sunscreen, wannabe! And try working outside, instead of lying around lazy on Huntington Beach, all oiled up. ;)

George

It's a Jeep tan!

When i step out of the "Double Wide" My white pasty skin soaks in too much sun so i have to grab some motor oil and rub myself down so i dont blister! ><

Once I get my Momo seats in I am removing all the foam from the roll bar and installing it on my sons Jeep. Problem Solved! :D
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1087493215.jpg

Hey, now a tirade about the improper use of a single jack stand.........

A chip off the old block! :D

G

AHHHH hahahahahhahaha!!!

Thats awesome shawn!!! :)

Milt, that's a pretty hefty motor in that jeep. I bet it sounds mean!

Zeke: Is yours an Autopower bar also?

Yes. The harness bar and the diagonal brace are not connected. Perhaps an older model. I just got the seats back in and I can adjust the driver's seat all the way back, but the passenger seat hits the diagonal in the second from last notch. They might have improved on that, I don't know. It's fine with me.

Next, I will build a seat back brace so the roll bar police here don't arrest me. (That is to keep the seat from breaking off and flying into the rear of the car with me in it if I back the car into the wall. Actually, the harness bar is below the top of the seat, so it would catch there before I flew out of the back window. :D)

Hello,
I thought it wasn't structurally sound to anchor the roll bar to the floor which can't hold much. Doesn't the bar need to anchor on the sill?
Wouldn't the weight of the car (on it's roof) colapse the floor mount points?
Just curious,
J.P.

I think I better shut up and refer you to the search function. This has been beaten to death. Two camps out there! Of course I am heavily opinionated in one camp. Guess which one! :D

Cheers, George

No doubt about that. These are just for autox and drivers ed. No wheel to wheel racing. They won't pass tech for many orgs. The floor mount bolt in simply provides a level of safety and a decent way to install a harness.

I actually like the "rough around the edge" attitude of your jeep. Is that a sbc in there? That'll seal the "redneck" :)

I often try to believe that the critics on the board are doing it for our own good. Problem is that we often take these comments personally, and that is easy to do since it is our personal work. Its amazing how fragile we can get about our cars. I always love the concours statements in a thread about "how do you like my mods".

can I get an update on your sons engine transplant? That lawnmower engine should work well.

Shawn you probably have noticed I havent really post lately, the idiot group here has grown by leeps and bounds

anyway I think I remember telling you about my wreck in my race car at about 120, I am not glad I smaked my head on the seat brace, but I am glad that brace and that roll bar was there, mometum is far worse in most cases then actually hitting some, if there is something extremly close to your head (like my car has) you head doesnt build momentum, the further it travels the more damage it will do even if it doesnt hit anything, so I too am putting a roll/bar/cage in my Porsche.

A couple days ago I seen a documentory on side impacts, Most cars can not stand a 30mph impact in the side, and yes this includes P cars, and it is even worse when hit by a suv with high bumpers, Your kids have a better chance with that roll bar and cross brace in a side impact then with out, even if it broke there nose or something worse, they would have a better chance to make it with it in, an expidition in a side impact at 30mph would probably not stop until it hit the center tunnel, mainly because there is no support between the side windows. I dont think it could make it that far with your roll bar and brace, I just dont get what these people are saying, People survive in high speed wrecks all the time with roll cages or roll bars, but they are unsafe for the street, ????

anyway the padding you have works fine for low speed stuff, I think the padding you were looking for is in the link below, just scroll down, stop caring what the clowns say and make it safe if your gonna track it, remember most of those guys cant even change thier own oil or even find a spark plug, the worse part is that they come across as the master of all, but have only read or is repeating hear say,

back to the B

http://www.stockcarproducts.com/acc16.htm

Kevin....The Anti-George.:D

I think the sill mount bars are better as well. Like Milt said the floor mount ones are good for us DE guys.

Smitty,
You should see that Power Wheels Jeep smoke the plastic tires!;)

Hey, who you callin' a redneck? ;) That Jeep is not rough around the edges either. Frame off restoation and paint. And I would only be a redneck if it had a Ford in it. :D But, yes, it is a SMC, those are the ones that the Corvette valve covers you see in there fit best. :rolleyes: :p

I don't get it, you see the irony of this, but you missed the point of the Jeep entirely. :D :p :rolleyes: That's OK, I built it for my wife. It was her Dad's. He put the Chevy in it in 1960. When he died, she wanted it for a keepsake. That's my wife, never satisfied with a framed picture on the dresser. Got to have his whole freaking car. We are car people to the bone.

Back to roll bars. the laws of inertia will show that if an SUV hits a light 911, the 911 will travel further. Just like a que ball hitting a golf ball. This produces acceleration in a different direction where the people inside the car react in a counter acceleration. So you're gonna get knocked around in there quite a bit. Any body crumpling will lessen this effect and Porsches are pretty good at that. This best thing is to be tied down well so you don't hit your head, arms, legs or torso on the car as it accelerates. The worst thing about a side impact is that while the other car is entering the side of your car, you are, in effect, traveling toward the other car. There wiil be some situations where a roll bar will be better and some where it won't. If we could design our collisions, we could more easily design our safety equipment.

A large part of the bolt in roll bar installation is to be able to use a harness that will hold you so you can drive better w/o sliding all over the seat. One might even not consider the thing as impact protection.

As I said, it's just a convenience and a short step toward total safety. And, in some sitauations, maybe even a step backwards. Whadya gonna do?

Wow, I am waiting on my roll bar. Hope I don't catch as much crap as you guys. Just wanted to read about roll bars. From what I have seen (That was not hi-jacked) you guys have done a great job. Hope mine turns out half as well as yours.

Just attach it to the floor using JB Weld and wrap it in tissue paper. You'll be fine. ;)