Installing a AutoPower Roll bar.
 

ATTENTION! AFTER PAGE TWO ALL TECHNICAL CONTENT GOES OUT THE WINDOW! IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR TECH ON INSTALLING A ROLLBAR STOP AT PAGE TWO! IF YOU JUST FEEL SILLY THEN PLEASE PROCEED TO PAGE THREE!

Here we go. Come along for the ride. I am documenting the install of my roll bar for future generations. I purchased a AutoPower race roll bar at Tweeks swapmeet over the weekend. This bar bolts thru the floor and inner wheel wells and needs backing plates to sandwich the sheet metal. Mine didnt come with any backing plates so I will fab some. This will be a multi day thread so let's get started!

First I put the bar in to see that everything lined up. The passenger(or driver)seat needs to come out to get the bar in. i removed the sections that go back to the wheel wells to get it in.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1086716858.jpg


Next I traced the size of the mounting plates onto some 1/8" plate I had laying around (Titanium :D ) and then marked the thru holes by transferring thru the mounting holes.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1086717179.jpg


Next I drilled out the backing plates to accomodate the thru bolts.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1086717824.jpg

Tonight I will bend the backing plates to match the radius of the inner fender wells.

I have one of those, too. Very cool. One downside is it'll increase your weight 50 lbs. But the upside is - and you tell me if you believe this - the roll bar will increase the body's rigidity.

God I love the color scheme of your car! My favorite

You need to paint the bar light blue to match the car. Ya gotta.

Mike

Its either that or Orange roll bar foam!:D

Why not get rid of everything in the back seat? It will nearly half the offset of the wieght of the roll bar. May as well strip the bottom of your tub as well, if you haven't already.

Kids still go for rides. All the interior pieces in the rear are slated to go. The seats stay in until I can find the wife a '72T. Then the kids can ride around with her!:D

Take the backs out and do the rear carpet ($79 from appbiz for the rear kit), it looks almost RS and they can still sit back there with the seat bottoms in and the belts. You know they wont be able to get back with the bar in right :-))

The harness bar/ diaginal brace unbolts and comes out. I am making the RS style carpet set for the rear out of locally aquired perlon felt. Total cost is about $5. If you look close the rear shelf area is already done. I was concerned with safety issues if I remove the seat backs......

Looking good!

The kids will still be going for rides with a roll bar back there? That's a very scary idea. I understand you can take out the harness bar, but what about the pieces that bolt to the inner wheel wells?

This is awesome since I need to install mine (same type) and I'd been having a hard time. I'd like to see how yours fits.

Jason

FWIW, I have the same bar in my car and it fit fine with the exception of one of the forward mounting feet didn't seat firmly on the floor, so I made a spacer out of some aluminum plate.

Other than that, it turned out great. And I painted it orange. :>)

Mike

Next I bent the plates that go in the wheel wells. I used the brace pieces from the rollbar as a guide.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1086783100.jpg

And here we are. All the backing plates ready to go.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1086783167.jpg

Tonight I hope to remove the interior pieces and drill some holes in the car. I am replacing the pieces with perlon felt.

As far as the kids in the back. I am putting high density roll cage foam on all the tubing. People ride in the back of Jeeps all the time.;)

I dont mind the look of roll bar foam on race cars but I always thought it looked kinda junky on street/track cars. I was toying with the idea of having a fabric (leather?) - zip or velcro cover made that would fit over the padding and make it look really clean. Might be more work than it is worth though?? No one rides in the back of mine and there is no way to contact the bar so I may just leave the foam off permanently.

We should start our own club - the smurf club, you me and Chuck could be in it :-))

Shawn, you will have to go on a serious diet to lose the 50 lbs. you've added with this roll bar!

You callin' my car JUNKY??!! :p

To be in the Smurf club you have to pick a Smurf name for your car. Like Brainy or something. Send me pics of your car. My hard drive is full of pics of Chucks car....:D

Tom, I know, I know. I am already 135 pounds too heavy and now I throw another 50 pounds in there. I must be insane! Where did I put that hole saw.........

Although that would be a ton of work, putting in zippers, fitting etc. I think a nice black leather sheath going over the padding would look great. I'm imagining nice black leather with diagonal diamond pattern stitching. For fun, the quilting thread could match the car's exterior.

Shawn,
I don't know if that's inherent to all the Autopower bars, but I had one in a Honda and the "feet" began to rust. I was young and w/o a welder (still w/o one) so all I did was follow the instructions and bolt it through. Maybe salt/moisture penetrated through the holes, around the bolts etc. and reached the bar's "feet." I'm not sure, but I know it began to have surface rust that would flake off the black paint from the bar.

Even if you're welding the bar in, the bolt holes are still a place where moisture can penetrate. My suggestion is to maybe put a coat of Por15 on those parts...

Do you guys think a roll bar like the Autopower adds any rigidity to the car?

Something like this?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1086798069.jpg

Hammer, I'm surprise you didn't go for a full titanium cage ;)

Chuck's got the right idea! Body-colored roll bar!! Gotta do it!!

As for whether or not it adds stiffness? I vote no. It's only a bar and not a cage and it's only bolted and not welded. I wouldn't count on alot of additional stiffness...

Mike

Last night I removed all the interior that was in the way.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1086889403.jpg

Next I put the bar back in and wedged everything into place.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1086889460.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1086889490.jpg

Now I just need to blow some holes in the pig and bolt her down!:D

I am ordering Orange rollbar foam from Summit soon. I plan to wrap the main hoop and struts.

The deed is done!
 

I was gonna cut the carpet to go around the bar feet so it was all pretty.....then I remembered whose car it was and just drilled right thru the carpet. My pillar seatbelt bolts are the eyebolt style so I had trouble getting the bolts in. If you have the standard bolts it shouldnt be an issue. So here is a pic all bolted in. And a shot of the backing plates.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1086955318.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1086955336.jpg

AND ZIPPERS!!!

hmmmm WONDER where you could find BOTH leather and zippers?

you'd have to name your car "the gimp"

sjd
hoping you're laughing as hard as I am...

Looks good you may want to double up on the nuts so they can't loosen, just for added security.
Don
That just doesn't sound right LOL

drilling straight through the carpet, you must've been a cable TV installer in your past life. Keep us updated.

Foam showed up yesterday. It is rollbar safety foam with an offset hole so you can put the most padding where it counts.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1087301378.jpg

Four 3' lengths is just the right amount to cover the main hoop and wheel well struts. It helps to put the split thinner part towards the roof.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1087301667.jpg

Cutting the foam to go around everything was a nightmare and took some time. I used a grease pencil to mark my cuts. I used one piece for each leg, a piece across the top and cut the last one in half for the struts.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1087301947.jpg

So here is the thru the back window view. My work is done here!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1087302031.jpg

You may want to check that these nice long bolts in the rear wheelwell are not in the path of the tire when the suspension compresses.

Shawn, nice work! Two comments. Make sure you put anti-sieze on all the bolts before they rust. Second, rotate the zip ties so the clipped ends are not exposed. They will reach out and bite and cut you when you least expect it. Don't ask me how I know.

How come you have to pad the bars going down to floor and back seat? It looks like I would save a little foam for the diagonal brace bolt head at the top. Just wondering, no disrespect intended.

Joe

Looks good Shawn! Will bolting it onto the carpet allow movement in the bar? I mean, wouldn't the unit snug down tighter directly to the floor pan without the carpet?

I'm looking forward to seeing it Saturday!

Shawn, Not sure if you plan to race the car, but the carpets may be a problem for others that do.

This is from the safety section (page 7) of the PCA Rulebook:

5. All cars must have metal to metal mounted roll bars of approved materials and tube size as outlined
in Appendix A. A roll cage is required in all cars in GT-1 thru GT-5 and all drivers who elect to run
Prepared in the Stock Classes must equip their vehicle with a full roll cage. It is strongly
recommended that all cars be fitted with a roll cage.

If the tires touch those bolts I am on the way over anyway!:D



I rotated them away from the back seats cause the kids are gonna ride back there ocassionaly. I can rotate them away from me if it becomes an issue.



The foam is purly for the back seat occupants. Since the bars dont extend to the front passenger compartment I wont need any foam padding like I would if it was a full cage.



Probably. I didnt think that thru. I will see to that before any DE stuff.

Just some DE's and Auto-Xing. But I am going to fix the carpet thing.

Shawn, you may also want to rethink having backseat passengers. Aside from the access problem, the rollar presents a safety issue itself.

The padding you have on the bar may reduce injuries to a helmeted passenger, but it offers almost no protection to a regluar passenger. In addition, I don't see shoulder belts in your pictures, I think anyone in the back is in great danger of head-to-bar contact in the event of an accident or even an abrupt stop.

I cart my kids around in the back of my 77, but have installed shoulder straps, and use older car seats that fit perfectly. I can't imagine squeezing them in with a roll bar.

Your best option is to go out tonight and buy your wife that '72 she has always wanted, and let the kids ride in the front passenger seats. They probably like that view better anyway.

Hmmm...I couldn't exactly remember how TRE installed my Autopower rollbar, so I called Dave with the question of whether or not it adds stiffness. He said unquestionably "yes." But that's due to the way TRE installed the bar for me. Yes, it's been bolted in, but they also welded it down as well. I'll have to check to see where the welds are, since carpeting covers up much of the area where the bar attaches to the floor. By my recollection, a welded piece was extended from the bottom door sills then welded to the bar itself - I don't know. I'll have to check.

In any event, Dave stated the bar now acts as if it were "half of a full roll cage."

Well, there might be ways to get a bolt-in roll bar to add some stiffness (like TRE may have done), but generally I wouldn't count on it.

Without the ability to react shear loads at the bolts (as in close tolerance shear capabilities), you're relying on friction to react the shear (and consequently add some rigidity to the structure). Picture a strut brace with big, sloppy holes that mounted it to the car. As soon as the external loads overcome whatever friction existed in the joint, it moves and your stiffness is gone...

Welding helps, but really unless the bar is tied into some strategic points on the chassis, it might add some local stiffness but in a manner that won't really translate into lower lap times.

Just my 2 pfennigs...

Mike

Mark, I realize your concern. The crossbrace/diagonal brace will be out of the car when I carry passengers. I cut the foam so all the tabs will be covered when the brace comes out. I believe this set-up will be as safe or safer than the back seat of a Jeep Wrangler. People ride in the back of Jeeps all the time. I think the foam I have used is safer than the foam used in the Jeeps. Also there are several members on this very board that drive streetable cars around with full cages. They have roll bar foam and as far as I know don't drive around town with helmets on....Although a couple may every now and then. :D
One child sits in a very well fitting car seat with the 5 point belt system. I agree with you on the lap belt....I will check into a 3 or 4 point belt for the passenger that isn't in a car seat.

DD74,
I am very interested in the cage bracing. Any info please.

Shawn: from what I can see when just now looking at the welding, the front mounting plates were welded to the floorboards in addition to being bolted through. There is no piece extending from the sill to the bars, so I stand corrected there.

Tomorrow is my turn in the barrel. My roll bar arrived today. I'll update the thread with any new findings. I'll probably set the thing in and mark the carpets for holes to place over the plates. I'm not sure what I'm going to do on the wheel wells. I hate to ruin my interior as tan is hard to find. I'll let you know about that as well as I progress.

Zeke,
I have the wheel well pieces in grey that need recovered. You can have them for shipping. Then you can save your good ones.