How 2 tell if tie rods are going...

[rip78sc]

I'm new here so go easy - how do you tell if your tie rods are going? I have a shimmy in the steering wheel sometimes when I really jump on it going onto the freeway. After awhile it rides out. Sometimes I notice it at other times - usually just after I start going or turn a corner.

Also, how can I tell if I have the Turbo Tie Rod update?

Thanks,
Rob

[cantdrv55]

Steering wheel shimmy can usually be corrected with wheel balancing. I dunno how to tell if you've got turbo tie-rods. Cars with that upgrade suffer little steering slop or looseness if any.

[jthwan22]

jack up front of the car and support it with jack stands. Use your key to release steering lock. Have a helper hold on to the steering wheel while you grab the front tire at 3 and 9 o'clock. Wiggle the tire and look at the tie rod. Feel for play. If so, see if it is the inner or outer one that is bad. Repeat for the other side. I replace both side if one side is bad. The other one is just waiting to go bad next week. While you are at it, hold tire at 6 and 12 o'clock and check for play on the ball joint.

[Elombard]

Look at a picture of the Turbo tie rod here or at e-bay, focus on the inner attachement point. The non turbos are much different.

[rbcsaver]

Rob,
It would help us, to help you, if we had some very specific details about your car..
model, year, known upgrades, recent changes (such as new tires, etc.) use (AX, street, track, combos, etc. Remember, most of us are many thousands of miles away from you. The turbo tie rods are ball/joint configuratiion. The usual older, like my 84 Carrera tie rods are big rubber bushing kinda thing. If you do not have the turbo tie rods, then you should upgrade. The difference is like night and day, but I seriously doubt that your shimmy is from them. I would look at wheel balance first, bent wheels, then alignment, etc. again more info about your Porsche.
regards,
Steve

[toolman]

I have two good (used) regular tie rods if you need them. One was new about 7000 miles ago. I just upgraded to turbo rods and it made a noticable difference. Where are you in Mich.?

[rip78sc]

Thanks everyone - here are my details:

78 911 SC Targa
140000 miles
Upgrades: Carrera tensioners, pop off valve, new paint - other than that I'm only guessing. I bought it August 2002 and pretty much last summer it was in pieces getting painted. This is my first P-Car so I'm learning a ton from this board - I should probably have my tires balanced but I'm not sure that is the problem - I just went through that with another car and the vibration/shimmy is different - kinda like a large shake rather than a vibration and then it goes away...thanks again everyone!

[rip78sc]

Toolman,

How much of a difference have you seen with the turbo tie rods? I am very interested! I live near Flint and work in Auburn Hills (not far from the Palace - home of the NBA Champion Detroit Pistons!! - sorry Laker fans, your my second favorite team!)

[toolman]

I would say for the $$$, it is a very worthy upgrade. It seems that the steering is so good on a 911, how can it get much better? I replaced the bushings, added a bump steer kit, and installed turbo rods. I had it aligned yesterday and was impressed by the difference. I live near Monroe, and if you need that tie rod to get you going, you can have it (them).

[jthwan22]

did you release the parking brake? Don't ask me how I know.

[tt_targa]

I had a shake in mine at highway speeds when I bought it.

The alighnment didn't have enough toe-in. My guess is that the tie rods had warn a little and that caused the change. With an alighnment, it now drives fine. I do plan to upgrade to turbo tie rods.

I found a spec for tie rod free play for my 91 Accord. The motion at the outside radius of the steering wheel should be less than .40 when tire is constrained. I have not seen a similar spec for my Porsche.

[jgporsche]

DO NOT BUY THESE ON EBAY. BUY ONLY FROM A SELLER THAT STANDS BEHIND WHAT THEY SELL!! Ask how I found out the hard way.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7906544657&category=33593&sspagename=WDVW

[rip78sc]

Thanks guys! I'll check the tie rods and probably get an alignment and balancing and see where to go from there. Thanks for the offer Toolman hopefully mine will make it until I can upgrade to the turbo tie rods.

Thanks again guys!

[rip78sc]

jgporsche - I gotta here this - what happened?

[Oh Haha]

Hey rip78sc
I am near flint too(Mt. Morris) Where will you be getting your alignment done? I just lowered mine and took it to Drago's. Gary suggested I replace my rear sway bar bushings before aligment. Anyway, do you know of any other Pcar specialists in our area?
We dhould get together and shoot the sh#$ sometime. Not many of us in this area.
See ya,
Wayne

[john70t]

It helps to put the vehicle-in-reference in your name or post. The Pcar suspension hasen't changed much over decades but it's still a good thing to start with.

Suspension is kind of a tricky thing, one little thing seems to affect so much else, and the "vibrations" sometimes get lost/ignored while driving.

On level-surface driving at all speeds, alignment (toe, camber, caster) will be most critical to the "feel".
When accellerating or turning.......the bushings/T or sway-bars/shocks/chassis/tire sidewall all make an effect.

rip78sc: I've got a set of turbo tie rods that I'm going to sell (without guarentee). Email me if interested, I'm in Ann Arbor area. The shafts are from a new set that I used about 2 years/8k miles when the rack boots and end boots split. (MF...MF...$150 down the drain...MF...!!!)
I replaced the ends (only) with Lemforders but they still need new rack boots and new castle-nuts because the "factory" tie-rod press doesn't fit on the "factory" tie rod end.

[Paulporsche]

Don't forget your wheel bearings. Do what was suggested for checking the tie rods, but position your hands at 12 and 6 o'clock. If there is movement, the wheel bearings need tightening or replacing.

Usually, it will be what was first suggested-wheel out of balance.

Let us know what it was.

Paul

[CRH911S]

It's pretty simple to determine the two types of tie rods. Turn the steering wheel full travel one way or the other and look at the area where the tire rod is connected to the steering rack. You'll need to pull the boot back and be carefull not to damage the oval retaining spring. Turbo tie rods are ball and socket. If not you'll notice an articulated joint with rubber bushings and you don't have the updated tie rods.
To test the condition of the tie rod end that is visually ok I use channel locks to squeez the joint. Any play detected automatically should be corrected with a new tie rod end.
The shimmy condition is probably wheel bearing related and/or balance related and I would check both of these.
If you update to turbo tie rods the shimmy condition will become more obvious and this isn't do to the tie rod.
I think I would test for wheel bearing wear using the methods described earlier here. I think that is where you'll find your shimmy.
Good luck and let us know what you find.

[Zeke]

Front end shimmy telegraphing thru the steering wheel is different from an out of balance tire(s). But, it feels similar. Shimmy is usually more intense and balance will come and go in intensity as you accelerate. You may be able to find a speed where there is no shimmy if it's a tire.

If you think it's steering/suspension components, all the advice above is good to follow. Also, examine your tires while off the ground and turning slowly by hand. Put something stationary next to the tread and observe for out-of-round. If your tires are o-o-r, they won't ever completely balance for all speeds. It could be the wheel or the tire. Next, check the lip of the wheel referrenced to your stationary point.

This and the rest here should find your problem.

[rip78sc]

Ok, I checked out the tie rods, ball joints with the above procedures and we're tight - no play. I guess that means the wheel bearings are ok also?? My next step is wheel balance and possible alignment. My hope is wheel balance (lesser of two evils) I won't be able to take her in until next week sometime so I'll let you all know how it goes. Thanks again for all the input and advise!

Oh Haha - Are you talking about Drago's on Dort Hwy in Flint? What did they charge for an alignment? and I have no clue on P-car shops in our area, so far I've been able to DIY - nothing too big (crossing my fingers)

John70t - so far I think my tie rods are ok, but if that changes I'll let you know. Thanks!