Formerly Steve Wilkinson, I have a question for you?
 

I read your book. It was good light reading.
I own a coupe but wonder why you take jabs at targa's? I was hoping somewhere in the book you would address this.

Hippie Targa haters club?!!?!?!?!??
 

Drew, I am reading "Gold Plated-" right now too. (Kudos to my dad for buying it for me) I was wondering the same thing and decided to see if anyone else asked him about this, and just found this thread.

So I second the thought Steve: WTF??

By the way- FANTASTIC reading so far Wilkinson, great job!

I'm not Formerly Steve, but I'll take a guess at his response:

Targas are less structurally sound than coupes and exhibit more chassis flex and cowl shake.

Targas are noisier than coupes; wind noise, squeaks, rattles, etc.

Targas are prone to leak, causing all sorts of rust problems.

Targas forfeit the classic 911 roof line and side window profile.

Targas are basically a styling exercise that yield no positive benefits, unless you just like the way they look.

Well, I was just trying to rattle some cages. It was meant sort of tongue in cheek, though I truly do think Targas are an incredibly ugly misinterpretation of the classic 911 shape. And Wavey's comments are on the mark, though he's being more serious and knowledgeable than I ever intended to be. Frankly, I think of Targas as gold-chain cars. Oh, jeez, there I go rattling cages again...

Stephan

Oh well, Steve the books great.

Hey, I gave up my gold chains long ago. I'm left with spinners for wheels.

I just finished your book recently as well and I confess...I own a Targa! Love the top down driving, hate the wind noise and the pain I've recently gone through dealing with the seals. Guess I'm off to Big K for some Big Gold Chains. Ciao Baby...

They're Girly Man cars!

ditto, especially the 4th point

Well, they are also abit cheeper to buy and it is quite nice to drive with the roof off.
I do think the coupes are better looking.

Agreed. A sunroof is no substitute for a Targa top, or a Cab for that matter.

It's just Targa-envy... pure and simple ;)


-MAS

You've got that right. Funny thing is that even with those negatives listed above, I'm considering selling my '87 coupe when it's time to buy a Cayenne in two years. No way would I sell my targa unless I pick up another open top car to replace it.

I just finished the book myself and sort of enjoyed it. I thanked my wife for getting it for me. I bought the targa for one plain and simple reason, my wife wanted a targa. I had owned around 7 or 8 other 911's and never a targa before. I totally enjoy the top off driving. I don’t own a single gold chain, and I agree it’s not a classic look. Its just fun to drive with the top off especially in the evening. Should I bad mouth people just because they own SC's and not Carreras? (Just kidding)… I think it’s a lame jab at people who are all basically in the same category of enjoying these fine cars. I can see taking a jab at a crop of 996 owners, but if you’re pre 1999 then we’ve all got a lot more in common then not, fake Rolex aside.

And what’s with the jab about getting info off these BBS’s? I’ve enjoyed learning a lot off these boards when I have asked a serious question. Just like anything else on the web you have to take it with a grain of salt. I am sure all the people I talk to in the stock market room are not nearly as rich and good looking as they say they are. This board has been a fun place to learn more about my cars and meet other people that share that interest. I don’t see a reason to knock these places in a book.

This has been discussed 'til everyone is blue in the face. I am the first to agree that the coupe looks a little better, but the main positive benefit is the open air enjoyment. I haven't owned a car without a sunroof in over 10 years, and the removeable top is even better.

Using the term "less structurally sound" is going overboard a bit, they do flex. They are also heavier to make up for the lack of roof.

I also think all sorts of rust problems is a huge misnomer. I've got none on my '84, and there certainly are enough coupes out there with rust. Pre '76 were potential rust farms in all the Porsche models.

I don't think they're even very much heavier. The soft window targa is supposed to be the same weight as a contemporary coupe. Does anyone have weight numbers on the later cars, without simply adding the weight of the rear window (as this may not be valid for later cars)

What's so bad about gold chains?

Oh, oh, targa vs coupe, things can get ugly. I never understood the targa, nor would I ever buy one. I do trust the opinions of many targa owners on this board and don't think alienating them because you don't like the look of their car is needed. At least that is my opinion. Isn't it time for a cab owner to chime in?:D

the CGT is a Targa...

'nough said.

I'm glad Porsche made Targas. They make great parts cars for Coupes

the best handling production sports car in the world is a targa as well

i just flipped thru a forbes magazine and there's steve! it was actually a smaller mag, inside the main mag. i think they called it "forbes FYI" i gotta admit, the picture of the yellow car is great. and yup, it really was a barn.

i love my coupe, but i gotta admit, i miss the targa i gave away. i wish i could have both. but if i get one more 911, it will still be a coupe. the lines are just too damn sexy.

Originally posted by efhughes3:
"This has been discussed 'til everyone is blue in the face."

And yet someone still asked the question, hence this thread.

"but the main positive benefit is the open air enjoyment."

Exactly. So you've got a car with at least three functional negatives (chassis flex, noise and leaks) VS one sensory positive. And the visual difference is entirely subjective so there's no point in arguing that.

"Using the term "less structurally sound" is going overboard a bit, they do flex."

Right, they flex because they're less structurally sound. Which would you rather be in when it rolls over?

"I also think all sorts of rust problems is a huge misnomer."

Do a search on "targa" and "rust".


Originally posted by trader220:

"I totally enjoy the top off driving."

So why is your car for sale?


Originally posted by svandamme:

"the CGT is a Targa... 'nough said."

I think we're talking about 70's technology welded steel unibody 911 Targas. Hardly the same thing as a high-tech carbon fiber tub.

that rust ... is fixed on mine
that flex ... doesn't bother me for country rides, i don't track mine
and even if i would , i'm not good enough driver to actually gain seconds a lap ... and i doubt much people would be on this board...

that rolling over... i plan on not rolling over... thinking doom like that and i wouldn't be driving a car at all unless it came with a roll cage and other crap...

the open air driving is not a visual thing , it's a sensory thing... it's fun
driving through a forrest on a sunny day with a targa is more fun than in a coupe, so is going through a tunnel with the roof off, and downshifting so i can have my S howl ...

as for leaking , mine leaks a little bit in the rain.. just a little
but it's my weekend fun car, i have my beater for when it rains

noise.. well , my engine makes more noise than the wind ,
and even doing 100mph , i have no wind on below the ears..
try that in a coupe with the windows down ( unless you have an actually working AC , then you can close them, and be completely isolated from the outside world)


as for the visual aspect of the roofline... why would i care about that ?!?! i want to be sitting IN the car, not outside looking at it...


as for Steve taking jabs at Targa's .. well , it was enjoyable reading , but by no means the definitive word on what 911 ownership comes down too. and i'm sure it wasn't intended to be so...

Well,, I would have said something, but SVANDAMME did just fine as my Proxy.

Alan C,

Believe that you have it a bit wrong. We Targa owners use all the rusted out coupe's as parts cars for our Targa's!

Mine does not rust, does not leak and I can live with the flex. 9 months of the year the top is off and life is good with a Targa. Course if I lived in the NE where SW lives I might feel the same way!

The only thing better (without involving girls that is) than a Targa with the top off is taking the doors off of my plane and flying it around!

JoeA

I had a targa and still would if I could have afforded to keep it, the miles were getting up and it was getting ready to be expensive. I wasn't happy about selling and I'll be back one day.

I loved my targa

I bet you won't see a coupe that looks like this though.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1092146560.jpg

Actually, the question posed by this thread was to Steve Wilkinson as to why he made his comments in his book, so it is not the same question of Targas vs. coupes.

Subjective is YOUR comment on noise, rust and leaks so "there's no point in argueing that".

I don't think I'd truthfully like to be in ANY 911 in a rollover without a bar or cage.

I stand by my statement of rust being a non-issue in my car at 20 years of age and 120K on the speedo-and she's not a queen.

At this point: whatever!

For some reason, your comments go past the typical coupes vs Targas and SC's vs Carreras light-hearted sparring that we all enjoy here. Why not go slam some other form of car on another forum?

Joe, can i jump out of your plane?
must note that i have flex in my own self, i leak on a daily basis , and i'll probably roll over a couple of times on the way down...i'm also pretty noisy when exiting, but hell , does it matter jumping out at 12000 feet?

And another thing!

I think I remember reading about Mark Donohue saying he actually preferred the flex of a Targa on a track in that he could use it to advantage.

Stijn,

Anytime! Do you jump? I have a Brit "D" license and have jumped all over Europe. Was at the first Krakow boogie as well. Based now in Phoenix but jump at Eloy these days.

Have not jumped out of the Aeronca but its been done a lot before.

Joe A

i've jumped several times before, but no licence(yet)
very expensive in europe to get the licence you basically have to pay the fuel to get the jumpmasters up in the air as well... and not many jumpmasters where i was at meant you were lucky if you found 2 dudes for one jump a day... didn't have enough patience... but at least got 4 solo jumps out of it... 1 high speed failure too ... great rush :D

OT Joe is the Aeronca the one that has a 911 like dashboard ? I think i flew in one of those a few years ago.

Just voicing my opinion, thought that was allowed here. Guess I touched a nerve. Don't take it personally.

i wont bad mouth another 911,, at least right here, right now. but if i had it to do over again i would coupe up again. im glad that when i found my car it fit all the other criteria i was looking for, and WAS a coupe. it may have been hard to walk from a 60k mile 78sc, even if it was a targa.

hey one last question,,, were there any 73 RS targas ever built?????

were any of the 911R's ever targas?

coupers are super

Ed,

We have only an airspeed, compass and engine gauges, so not much up there.

Stijn,

Go to Florida, CA or Arizona and get your jumps in there. Lots cheaper in the end and you can jump 10 times a day if you want.

Still like the Targa! The cabrio is not for me as I like the rollbar but still like having the top off. Love the "longhood" 911 coupes but nothing like having the wind in my 3 hairs as I drive!

JoeA

We need a targa forum and a stupid coupe forum so we don't have to play together anymore. Jerks.

i know , just waiting till my boss sends me to Utah for some work stuff... then it's only a short drive to arizona ... only annoying part is , i've constantly denied any offers for trips to utah on the basis that there aren't enough pubs there and blatantly gave that as a reason.... me and my big mouth....:D:D

worse:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1092154812.jpg

I had a targa and loved it. It had old crappy seals and was still 95% leak free, only in really, really hard rain (you know, southeast US torential) or if the wind was blowing just right and the car was at the right angle, and then only in the passenger back floorboard.

When I get another I would like a non sunroof coupe, but if I found the right deal I'd get another targa.