70T Ticking update

[blackbird225]

If you remember, I have an annoying ticking coming from the left side of the engine , narrowed down to valve train noise not related to lash. ( rockers and cams )

Took out all rockers on the left ( noisiest ) side of the car. Found one that was pretty badly worn. Bought a new one from PP.
It did quiet it down, but it did not go away. But, if you remeber, I ran the car for 1 minute without the rocker in place, and it DID make the noise vanish. The new rocker wasn't enough, I need new cams. I found a guy here on the list that will sell me E cams.

But here is my dilema:
I have never pulled my engine, and I don't have the stand or the 911 adapter. I don't have a dial gauge, z block, or chain holding tool. Or any other tool that I might need to redo the cam timing.

Do I invest in these tools, and try the timing myself, or since my motor is fresh, and I'm not doing a rebuild, does it make more sense to pay a mechanic to just install the new cams/towers?
I have 101 projects, and the rebuild book by Wayne, and even the haynes book. The cam timing seems pretty tricky.

michael

[Grady Clay]

Michael,

The “safe” answer to your question is for you to take it to an experienced and competent mechanic and pay him some money.

The “fun” answer to your question is to go spend the (more) money on the tools and DIY for the satisfaction. These tools will provide you a lifetime of use.

As most on this forum will attest, “There is no substitute” for gaining the ability to do all this yourself. There is plenty of info available and lots of great advice.

Best,
Grady

[Early_S_Man]

Michael,

Don't play it safe ... the rewards of doing it yourself far outweigh the savings by not having someone else do it! if you happen to run into a snag ... you can get help here, even at 11:00 PM on a Friday, Saturday, or Sunday night!!! Just ask Superman, Leland Pate, and others that have been up that creek!

You don't need an engine stand, though it does make it nicer! An engine sitting on its' heat exchangers resting on cinder blocks is a perfectly stable platform to change and time the cams!

What you need, minimum:

1. Dial indicator ... $10 Harbor Fright works as well as Starrett, inches works as well as metric if you double check EVERY conversion ...

2. Z-block

3. 46 mm crowfoot

4. Cam holding tool

5. Ty-raps work as well as the chain tensioner tool in a pinch

6. old/new Bosch spark plug works on [screws into] cam sprocket locating pin as well as the factory tool

7. Floor jack

8. Tall HD [6-ton] jack stands

Good luck!

[blackbird225]

OK... I'm comitted. It's funny. One guy on the list here once asked me this question. "Have you had the engine out yet?" I said, " no its just been rebuilt". He just smiled and said, "its just a matter of time".
I guess these things are just meant to be worked on. I'm all for it. I get all jumpy like a kid on x-mas when a box from PP arrives. I must have 30 of those stickers all over my garage.

I'll start ordering tools and get the cams and update the list when the engine is out, and the cams are in. I'm sure I will need help with the timing...

Thanx Warren & Grady!
michael

[blackbird225]

Warren, are you going to throw a party when you get to 10,000 posts!

I feel like i have tenure with 171! LOL

michael

[ubiquity0]

Michael,
how difficult was it to remove & replace the rockers w/ engine in the car? Were both intake & exhaust rockers showing wear?

[blackbird225]

It was a pain in the ass until I removed all of the engine tin. Then it was reaaly quite simple. I was able to pull a rocker in 2 minutes at the end. The rockers were really quite clean except the really gouged exhaust side rocker on #3. It is actually squared off a little. Pretty bad...
The clicking quieted, but did not cease, but it starts easier, and has more available power. Smoother all around. This makes me tingle with excitement about what it will do with new e cams!

are you having this same problem?

michael

[ubiquity0]

Possibly. My valve train is quiet when cold & things become gradually noisier once it warms up. It sounds like all the valves are adjusted a little loose, but they're not. I know its not valve guides, as the car consumes only 1 quart of oil every 2000 miles & besides the guides are only 30 000 miles old.

[ubiquity0]

Did you replace the elephant's feet adjusters as well?

[blackbird225]

Its got to be this same problem. My mistake if you want to call it that is that I decided to buy a new one from PP when I new deep down that the cam could not have survived unscathed through the beating that the rockcer was taking. Truth is, they wore each other down. Warren suggested that at one point, the squirter clogged. You and I both know that once you get metal to metal, even for a short time under load, its all over with. The metal that is disintegrating is so fine, that its like a silty sludge, far to tiny to see, but it surrounds my mag plugs.

You gonna dive in like me and replace the cams? Pop off the lower valve cover, and take out one rocker. Its easy. Just have lots of light and tap on the right place when you drive it out. Its even easier than valve adjust. You will be able to get an idea after two or three rockers. I just got a factory new one, and most of my old ones are in similar condition. smooth to the eye and touch.
Michael

[blackbird225]

Oh yeah. Mine sounds like a new car when warming up then starts clacking and rattling like mad after 2 or 3 minutes. It used to dpress me. I just want the people in traffic to hear how beautiful it sounds like it does when its warming up.
May be soon...

[ubiquity0]

Originally posted by blackbird225

You gonna dive in like me and replace the cams?

Maybe I’ll upgrade to 964 cams (I have an SC). This could be a project for next winter- rockers, cams, backdate the heating system.

[blackbird225]

I can only imagine how fun an SC is. My car is only a little faster than a 912 =(

But it still has 6 cyls!!! =)

[smcdermaid]

Blackbird,

Any chance of you posting pics of your rockers or cams? These symptoms sound awfully familiar. I dream of having the warm up sound last throughout the whole heat cycle!

[blackbird225]

Will do. I got my dig cam back finally. I have heard others say that the car should sound like a sewing machine. It does for a little while then...
I did improve the sound a little, so I know we are on the right track.

Michael

[john walker's workshop]

E cams on T pistons?

[Early_S_Man]

Michael,

I think the point of JW's question is that 'T' pistons don't have valve-relief packets big enough to give adequate clearance to the valves when 'E' cams are installed! T, E, & S pistons had progressively larger pockets to handle the larger lift for the matching cams ...

One alternative would be to order a set of JE 9.5:1 pistons in 85.0 mm size with relief pockets ... and have your cylinders bored to fit the new JEs.

[blackbird225]

Wow...
I am very glad that you guys told me that. A few people told me that you coud just drop the E cams right in my engine. That's why this list is critical for green guys like me. Then again it was people on the list who said just drop it in! =)
Ok, where do I get JE pistons? PP doesn't list them.
My total budget was sub 1K for the whole cam "upgrade". Has that budget vanished forever?

michael

[blackbird225]

I found them, on PP, but they weren't under early porsche? I found them using google! Look$ like $900 to get new pistons. Not including the reboring of my cyls... Is it worth it to get (20?) more hp? Thats like $80 per horse. =( THe engine is freshly rebuilt with excellent compression and leakdown. But if you guys say its a worthy upgrade...

[limble]

Michael,
Don't be afraid to ask fellow Pelicans or PCA members for help during the rebuild. Offers of beer, burgers and bull$hit will draw many people, some of who might even help.