I think I've exceeded my mechanics intelegence level?

sayah · 08-11-2004, 12:27 AM

Some time ago I had my 911E towed to my mechanics garage for a simple engine valve timing adjustment. He keeps telling me he can do it and wants the job but has lots of "Mercedes" to fix first.

He did a compression test, and has told me there is a difference between a car that doesn't run on its own and one where someone else screwed up a repair. He says he's going to call but I am just left waiting by the phone?

Have I been shown the door? Its been almost 3 weeks?

Help! Stranded in New York

Yargk · Yargk's Garage

intelegence?

Milu · 08-11-2004, 01:32 AM

Is the car in for a regular maintenance valve adjust or did it go in with some issues?

Does the mechanic have dedicated Porsche experience or is he an "all rounder". I was "manouvered" into taking a 911 to my ex business partner's mechanic who supposedly maintained a fleet of 911s for clients - I then had to talk him through an oil change over the phone!

Perhaps a friendly visit is in order after THREE weeks! (I got an apology from the shop that did my last engine rebuild because it took that long!)

stomachmonkey · 08-11-2004, 03:45 AM

Where in NY are you? NY, NY generally indicates the city. If so there are several reputable shops within easy reach.

Scott

sayah · 08-11-2004, 03:48 AM

The adjustment is for cam timming. This was explained to the mechanic "up front" on the telephone. The engine was running, but only on cylinders 1 - 3. The car was not driveable. The mechanic listed in the yellow pages as a "porsche-mercedes-volvo" repair specialist. It is a very small shop. The mechanic is friendly enough, but seemed a lillte relieved when I signed a work order.

Am I being taken for a ride on this one? Does anyone think the mechanic would expect a storage fee for the car?

89911 · 08-11-2004, 03:51 AM

Run Forest, run!

Milu · 08-11-2004, 04:17 AM

It maybe that more than valve adjustment is needed. This may or may not be within the guy's skill level. Go and see him and talk it through with the guy. Check out his shop and what other job's he has on, get a time and cost estimate out of him. If you don't feel totally comfortable get your car to a shop that has good referals.

Jim Smolka · 08-11-2004, 04:25 AM

RUN!

Follow that little voice in your head. Contacts some local PCA members for shop recommendations.

stomachmonkey · 08-11-2004, 05:25 AM

Soooo, are you in the apple or not?

There is a Pelican gathering happening this Friday in honor of Tyson coming to NY.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=175143

Should be plenty of guys there who know of good shops in the area.

I know of a couple but without knowing where you are located they may or may not be convenient to you.

Scott

Dan Owens · 08-11-2004, 07:35 AM

You say it was running on one to three cylinders, why do you suspect cam timing as the problem? Just guessing or is there something that leads you to believe that? Sounds like you may have some other problem than cam timing? As for the shop, I would pick up the car and go somewhere else. I don't know many if any shops that are that backed up for normal repairs. It shouldn't take 3 weeks to get to your car, at least as a first pass to look at it.

sayah · 08-11-2004, 07:50 AM

The reason I suspect this is because these is spark on all the cylinders, and both carbs are getting gas. (I squirted some starting fluid in all the velocity stackts and the idle remains constant.) I can only guess that the cam is out of time one cylindrs 4 - 6.

I just got back from A&G in Long Island City. and the owner just informed me he wants 4 grand to fix the car. This on top a complete rebuild. I refused and am having the car towed back to my house this afternoon.

Oldporsche · 08-11-2004, 07:57 AM

Good move Larry!

There are a lot of intelligent porshe owners in NYC that know these cars. Call you local PCA folks, if nothing else and find with their help someone that does his own work on one of these older cars.

Seek them out. Stay out of the yellow pages for a while.

Good luck.
David Duffield

Jim Smolka · 08-11-2004, 09:02 AM

Hopefully, the chain for 4,5,&6 has not broken. If you take off a rocker cover you should see the rocker move.

Zeke · 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sayah
The reason I suspect this is because these is spark on all the cylinders, and both carbs are getting gas. (I squirted some starting fluid in all the velocity stackts and the idle remains constant.) I can only guess that the cam is out of time one cylindrs 4 - 6.

I just got back from A&G in Long Island City. and the owner just informed me he wants 4 grand to fix the car. This on top a complete rebuild. I refused and am having the car towed back to my house this afternoon.

Good news. Take your time.

Pull the timing chaing cover and valve cover and look around. Maybe get a dial indicator (a cheap one will do for now; you will need a holder) and discover a few things using Wayne's books. You will at least know what you are spending your money on.

Grady Clay · 08-11-2004, 11:36 AM

sayah,

What year is your E?

What were the results of the compression test?

Milt is right on. Take your time, gather information, meet local PCA & Pelicans, and diagnose the problem yourself (with help from local Pelicans and this forum.) The problem may be something you can and want to fix yourself. If not, you certainly want to take it to the right shop.

From what little I know about the symptoms, I will offer 2c.
An unfortunately too common failure is an old rubber chain ramp broke and parts of it went through the chain sprockets. This caused the cam to jump time. The valves hit the pistons and break the rocker arms. With an E you have about 50-50 chance of not bending a valve.
Your first order of business is to remove the 4-5-6 intake valve cover and look at the intake rocker arms. If all appear OK, take a flashlight & mirror and inspect the exhaust rockers. You should not be able to move the rocker from the cam by much more than the valve adjustment spec (0.004”).
Of course, I may be all wet here.

Is it Larry? Where do you live? What is your current garage situation? It seems you addressed an engine rebuild a few years ago. It all boils down to if you are willing to Do-It-Yourself (DIY). As you know, you will find this Forum full of good advice in miniscule detail. I’m sure there are many competent Porsche mechanics available to you.

Best,
Grady

sayah · 08-11-2004, 01:23 PM

Grady, this was my new rebuild project that somehow went terribly wrong. I replaced almost everything in the engine and followed the rebuild insturctions in all the books. The main problem seems to be getting the timing correct on the cams. I don't believe the valves are hitting the pistons. The engine starts, runs ,it just doesn't make power on the left side. If you put your had on anyone of the right side velocity stacks, the engine stumbles and may even stall out. The left side is a different story. No matter what you do, like removing spark plug wires, putting a hand on the intake stacks, it does not effect the engine speed. I checked the spark, they are fine on all the wires. I brought it to a mechanic who also check over the car. He agreed with me but added that it was almost impossible to time the cams without a 4,000.00 service bill.

Here are the facts, the car has been returned to my enclosed garage in Queens, New York. I am planning on doing a partial engine drop pop off the timing chain covers and removing the valve covers to check out what's what.

RoninLB · 08-11-2004, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sayah
The engine starts, runs ,it just doesn't make power on the left side. If you put your had on anyone of the right side velocity stacks, the engine stumbles and may even stall out. The left side is a different story.

pop off the timing chain covers and removing the valve covers to check out what's what.

ahh haaa.. the cam was installed 180deg wrong. I speculate.

Grady Clay · 02:09 PM

WHAT A CROCK - - $4000! Not in a New York Minute.
Good that you got your 911 out of there.

I went back and read a few of your posts. My sympathy, this should be working great. If it turns out there was something amiss with your process, technique or understanding, please don’t shy away. There are hundreds (thousands) who can benefit. I’ll be glad to help.

Just pull the intake valve cover without doing anything else. Six nuts and an easy inspection and cam timing check.

Best,
Grady

RickKlem · 08-21-2004, 01:03 PM

Sayah,

Did you get your car running yet? If not check out my post from months back. I had the same problem. There is another link within this link to give details of my problem and how it was fixed.

Problem solved, motor runs great.

Good luck

Rick

Lukesportsman · 08-22-2004, 07:29 AM

Its a good thing we are DIY's or there would be a lot of chevy powered 911's like the older XJ6's. $4,000 to time A cam. I'm hoping he just estimated high in case there was piston/valve contact and damage. That would make keeping a midyear or SC on the road hard to justify $$ with those kind of maintenance costs and the resale values would drop even faster.

I see 308's getting into this problem soon...$10k rebuilds on $19000 dollar cars that are slower than a WRX and only another 35k miles to $3000 clutch job again.