10,000th valve adjustment question

[zbph10]

After searching this site for hours, reading Wayne's book and tech articles I believed I was ready to tackle adjusting the valves on my 87 3.2

Found TDC with the help of the search button and this BBS (no Z1 mark) Found the indicator on the distributor

Problem is I can't get the feeler gauge into the gaps.

Question is:
Do I go ahead and loosen the adjustment bolts as Wayne's book states and risk messing up a nice quiet valve train or do I leave it alone as some of the threads suggest?

Valves are quiet as a mouse and the car runs great, should I use the old saying "If it ain't broke do fix it"? or is it a REQUIREMENT to adjust the valves every 10,000 miles?

I needed to fix a couple of annoying oil leaks anyway.

[ZOA NOM]

If you can't get the feeler in at all, I would suggest trying a smaller feeler to get a measurement. If your valves are set too tight, you may have trouble. If I remember correctly, they will tighten as they heat, moving closer to the piston, which would most likely mean they aren't fully seated when they should be.

[Rot 911]

Is the engine dead cold, like sitting over night cold? If so, do what Zoanas suggested, try a .003mm gauge and see if you can get that to slide in. It sounds like this is your first attempt at adjusting the valves on a 911. If so you may be trying to insert the gauge in the wrong place like I did the first time. You need to make sure you are inserting the gauge between the "foot" on the rocker arm and the valve stem. I kept trying to insert it above the foot thinking the foot was actually the top of the valve stem. The best valve to practice on is the number 5 exhaust valve. Nothing is in the way of getting a clear view of seeing and getting the gauge in.

[billwagnon]

what worked for me to find the spot was to slide the gauge up until I felt a little "click"

[Doug Steinel]

I would make sure you have the crank/cams rotated to the proper place. Why no Z!1 If you have this wrong, you might not be able to get the gauge in because the cam lobe is contacting the elephant foot. Be careful if you are making any large adjustment to the setting. They usually change only a little from one valve adjustment to the next (1/4 to 1/2 turn has been my experience).

[ChrisBennet]

Rock the rocker back and forth so you hear a "click click" sound, then push on the side of the rocker closest to the cam. This will lift the adjuster foot off the top of the valve so you can get the feeler gauge in.

Place the edge of the feeler gauge against the side of the valve stem and slide it up to the tip of the valve stem. This will tip the edge of the adjuster foot away from the top of the valve.


As the engine heats up the gap actually becomes larger.
-Chris

[cab83_750]

Loosen it!

I just adjusted my valves 2 weeks ago prior to my smog. Yeah, I was in your shoes.....the valves were quiet and the car ran smoothly. I was wondering if I should adjust them.

Guess what??????? Half of them were too tight.

[brcorp]

Chris,

A picture is worth a 1000 words! Great Job!

[zbph10]

In response to the no Z1 on the pulley I've read on this board the 3.2 motors don't have the Z1 mark or they are impossible to see?

Anyway with the motor at TDC I can move the #1 and hear the "click click" your talking about but it's too tight to get into.

I'm giving it another shot tonight, then I'm out of town all week.

Curious if anyone has actually noticed an improvement in their performance by adjusting their valves as Wayne's book states?

Thanks for the picture, I'll keep you updated on my progress.

Brian

[ed martin]

You are not alone! I've done this proceedure now probably on four different cars, 911s , and each time I ask myself the same set of questions, leave well enough alone, tdc etc. Every time I do it I'm amazed at just how difficult it is to find the gap with the gage. I have a lot of bent blades to prove it. The biggest and most important concern of course is, are you doing the adjustment to the correct cylinder. Of all the cars I've done I can't recall seeing one Z1 mark, so there is some considerable ambiguity going on. To be sure I'm in the right spot I do like everybody says, refering to the distributor and the mark on the pully, but to be certain I have the right mark on the pulley I'll pull the plug from the number one cylinder and with a dowel make sure the piston is all the way up. At this point you're ready to go to work on the number one cylinder. The first thing I do is check for play in the rocker arms. There is usually some play, unless the valves are really tight, which has happen to me before. If there is a correct amount of play then I go ahead and try to find the gap with the blade, which we already established isn't always easy, and furthermore some cylinders are harder to find than others. If it's not doable then I go ahead and loosen the gap so I can easily find it. Set your gap appropriately ( I tend to set them on the loose side with from studying a number of posts seems to be the prevailing consensus from most authorative sources) and then get used to checking your work by wiggling the arm for play. This is a good way to check your work and you will get used to the feel of a valve that is adjusted correctly. I always double check to make sure I'm on the right cylinder and before you know it your through. It's quite satisfying once you get through it because you understand that much more about your car, you save a bundle from not having to rely on a mechanic and you car performs so much better. The last job I did it reduced the engine temperature at least ten degrees. ( they were way tight!) I was so excited about this I splurged on a cool collar just to get the temperature even lower. I think if I was lucky it may have reduced the temperature by two degrees. Oh well at least they did give me a free oil filter with it. Most expensive oil filter I ever bought.

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by ed martin
To be sure I'm in the right spot I do like everybody says, reffering to the distributor and the mark on the pully, but to be certain I have the right mark on the pulley I'll pull the plug from the number one cylinder and with a dowel make sure the piston is all the way up.

Just to clarify what Ed said; checking that the piston is all the way up will help you decide which is the correct mark if you are choosing between some close together marks (like on the 2 at TDC on a Carrera).
However, piston postition will not tell you if you are at TDC for a particular cylinder. When the crank pulley is at TDC for #1 the #1 piston is all the way up - but so is the #4 piston.
-Chris

[ed martin]

Hi Chris, thanks for clarifying. Um, if I have the reference marks on the distributor and pulley aligned, then just to be sure I check for TDC on the number one cylinder. Correct?

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by ed martin
Hi Chris, thanks for clarifying. Um, if I have the reference marks on the distributor and pulley aligned, then just to be sure I check for TDC on the number one cylinder. Correct?

The basic procedure is to use the distributor rotor position to keep track of which cylinder you are on and use the mark on the pulley to get the TDC for that cylinder.
-Chris

[ed martin]

Right , what I meant is the rotor is pointed to the mark on the distributor which indicates the number one cylinder. The remaining cylinders correspond to 120 degree intervals on the pulley and and the proper firing order at each interval. Correct?

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by ed martin
Right , what I meant is the rotor is pointed to the mark on the distributor which indicates the number one cylinder. The remaining cylinders correspond to 120 degree intervals on the pulley and and the proper firing order at each interval. Correct?

You got it.
-Chris

[zbph10]

Finished the valve adjusting this weekend and everything went well, I had three I had to tighten slightly, and one I had to loosen.

I cursed in German a few times trying to get into the ones above the cat but I eventually got them.

Cars valves are quiet and it runs great.

Changed the oil, plugs, belt, and filters while I was at it, fun little weekend project.

Front wheel bearing is next on the list as I didn't like the way it sounded when I had the car jacked up.

Thanks for all your help, this will go a lot smoother next time around.


Brian