Winter storage checklist?

[Grady Clay]

(continued from previous post)

What to do with a 911 that wasn’t preserved for storage?

Drain the fuel from the drain port in the tank. Don’t run the fuel pump. If necessary (probably) clean the tank and outlet filter screen
Buy a new battery.
Change the oil and filter, clean sump plate.
Remove the sparkplugs and inspect with a light or bore scope. If the cylinders are rusty don’t turn the engine, go to Plan B.
Remove the intake valve covers and inspect for rust. If the cam is rusty, go to Plan B.
If you suspect there is corrosion in the oil sump tank, remove it and clean or replace it. Those rust flakes go directly to your bearings without a filter.
If everything appears OK, proceed as above but even more carefully.




Plan B and what to do with a 911 that has been stored for several (many) years?

Don’t try and start it! You may do far more damage to it in one minute than 100K mi. of driving.
In most cases it is best to just remove the engine and trans and do a maintenance overhaul.
Often the brake master cylinder has failed (or will after a few applications of the brakes.)
Old tires should be replaces with new.
Get the old battery out asap.
Electrical connections may be an issue and need to be cleaned.
Fuel and ignition system components will need cleaning or replacement.
Chain tensioners that sit for long are an issue for any engine.




What to do after your 911 is back in service.

Nice extended calm tours will get everything friendly with adjacent parts.
Change oil regularly. Check the sump screen for anything unusual.
Use higher than necessary octane fuel until the rings are fully seated.
Keep an eye on brake fluid level and possible fluid in the pedal assembly.
Inspect for any signs of tire failure, inboard and out.
As things change, bring them back into spec. If something fails (wheel bearing, CV, door latch, window regulator, hood lift, etc. – fix it. You want to keep your 911 in top form.
If it ever seems to loose power under acceleration – STOP. Find out why. You never want to have a rod bearing failure turn into a rod failure, broken case, and worse.




I’ll reiterate what many have said: The best and most reliable 911s are those that are driven regularly. Those that sit for extended periods are destined to have more problems. If you store your 911 out of personal necessity or adverse driving conditions, it is worth the effort to store it properly.

Best,
Grady

BTW, here are some links:
Storing and preserving an engine

[Grady Clay]

The original wax base preservative that Porsche used on the underbody was Valvoline Tectyl 822. I’ll see if that is still in their product line or if it supercedes to something even better.

We would paint a coat of this on all magnesium casting transmission rebuilds and spray a light coat on the lower half of mag engines.

Porsche hosed down the entire underside.

Best,
Grady

[Grady Clay]

Well ….

It seams that the Tectyl line of protective coatings that Porsche used (and may still be using) was sold from Valvoline to Daubert Chemical Company in Chicago.

Here is one of the product line for automotive apps:
http://www.daubertchemical.com/default1.html

Somehow I’ll bet the product still comes from the same Valvoline plant.

When I bought this stuff it was Tectyl 822, exactly the same as the Porsche factory used. I saw the Valvoline drums in Zuffenhausen in the early ‘70s.

Best,
Grady

[Randy Webb]

N2 means nitrogen, not the 2nd version of the Porsche N spec for tires....

You can put the oil drain plug in front where you will see it and disconnect the 1o wire to the coil; pull the rotor, etc. as a reminder - but there is still some risk of starting w/no oil.

I think Grady's procedures will easily get you thru a winter....

Remember, the mice are starving to death -- and their little heads are a LOT smaller than you think -- they can fit thru any opening that their skull will fit thru. I'd make sure no gap is as large as 1 cm.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Excellent write-up Grady, thanks!!!

the E sat all last winter and when I got it going in the spring (2 tries only), the clutch was stuck. Just put it in reverse and eased on the gas and it broke free, but any idea on how to prevent it in the first place?

[Grady Clay]

Shaun,

You bring up a good point I hadn’t addressed. How do you protect the clutch and brake friction surfaces without contaminating the clutch disc or brake pads?

Who has ideas on this?


Randy,
Yes, I was trying to cover most of the issues, not just get Graham through the winter, He He. Please add where I fail to post all the possibilities.

And yes the mice…. I bought a 914-6 in Aspen many years ago complete with about 50# of dog food that the mice had transported into the fuel tank area. They can get everywhere.

One fall the shop the alarm went off several times for broken wires in really obscure locations. It turned out some critter was eating the alarm wire insulation. After several attempts with your normal Victor mouse and rat traps, I got a really BIG one, 14”x8” with a chain attachment. I caught a huge (the size of a large cat) Norway roof rat. The alarm system continued to work perfectly after that.


Best,
Grady

[Randy Webb]

I think you covered everything!

Wax before putting away.

And I'd add re your admonition to not put away wet.... that means you can't drive it in with rain or snow in the wheel wells, etc. -- i.e. you can't just wipe off the outside after driving on a wet street. Same goes for an engine that is not warmed up -- it needs to have been run for about 30 minutes or more after it got warm then put away.

Have we emphasized enough... to drive it if at all possible? If no salt, then I'd drive it -- even in snow. I think that Grady's home state is not using salt yet, like most Rocky Mtn. states. I could be wrong tho, as I haven't been in Colo. for a few years.


I'm still interested to hear if the museum people have some additional tricks....

[larry47us]

Grady:

Honestly, I was hoping that you would weigh in on this subject. Since Chicago uses salt and LOTS of it, I don't plan on taking Kermit out over the winter. He's going to be buttoned up in the garage, with mouse traps (baited with peanut butter - my favorite bait).

You listed methods are thorough but lots of work. Seriously, you recomend against putting the car up on blocks, and starting it up every few weeks, and running it in the garage (with the exhaust piped outside). Putting it in gear, and letting it run some more to get the tranny warmed up and lubed?

That is what was recommended by my wrench. The cautionary note is that I heard from a Chicago wrench that 20W 50W oil loses it's viscosity when it drops below -20F. So he said that you need a thermometer in an unheated garage to make sure that you don't try to start it if it gets below -20F deg in the garage.

You

[rzepko6194]

Originally posted by Randy Webb
I'm still interested to hear if the museum people have some additional tricks....

I don't think museums would be a good source for long term storage information. Most are concerned only with cosmetic issues. I've heard many mechanical horror stories of "perfect" cars, bought from museum collections, when the new owner actually attempted to drive it.

Just my .02.

[Grady Clay]

Randy,

Unfortunately Colorado DOT has discovered liquid Magnesium Chloride – they dump millions of gallons on our roads. It is more corrosive than regular salt. So much so that it shorts out high voltage transmission insulators and sets fire to wood telephone poles. It is also killing the pine trees along our mountain highways. All in the name of an additional hour of less ice on the roads.

Larry,
The biggest reason for not running the 911 in place is you can’t put it under load and get it hot enough to evaporate all the water generated by the combustion. On a cold morning we have all seen liquid water coming from a tail pipe. Without getting the engine above the boiling point of water just prior to shut down, there is a huge amount of water inside the engine. That water, mixed with unburned fuel and combustion products is a toxic cocktail that will damage the engine.
This is what prompted my suggestion to leave the caps and covers off for a while after its drive prior to storage – to let the last vestiges of moisture escape from the hot engine. I have even considered bleeding dry Nitrogen gas into the engine, a T-cylinder could last a month.

The description of 20W-50 is an error. The 20W refers to the fact that the oil acts like (has the viscosity of) SAE20 oil when cold and like SAE50 oil when hot. SAE20 is still OK at -20F although SAE5 would be better. I use 20W-50 most of the year and 5W-40 in mid winter in our daily Toyotas and Fords. I have started my 911 as low as -35F with 10W-40 oil.


Yes, all this IS a lot of work but the alternatives are far less appealing.


Best,
Grady

[RickM]

In addition to what's been said:

I apply a coat of pure yellow Carnuba wax on my polished/clearcoated wheels. In the spring I wash the accumulated dust off, let dry and gently remove.

The absolute best car cover I've found for indoor storage is the Budge Tyvek cover. I'ts inexpensive, water resistant, breathes and does not allow dust to penetrate OR shed dust like many flannel or cotton covers do.

I like the poly on the floor idea. I may do this and fold the edges up somehow. Just high enough to prevent mice from getting into the car.

[larry47us]

Grady:

I understand your point, and respect your experience. Looks like I have a bit of work to do this fall after I pick up Kermit!!

Regarding the lightbulbs. I understand that they create a small amount of heat that will keep moisture from condensing. Where do you put the bulbs, and how many do you use? Do you just put a couple in the engine compartment, or do you do it in the trunk and interior as well? TIA

Rick:

I think you are underestimating the mice. You can't fold up the poly high enough to keep the mice out - unless you fold it over the car, and zip it along the top. Grady was correct. A mouse can get into any space that he can get his head into. He can also climb up what seems to you to be a vertical wall. Your only protection against mice is - to snap trap them. I don't like the poison for all kinds of reasons, not the least of which is that they crawl off and die. Maybe they will even crawl off into your 911 and croak, leaving you with a strange smell that you can't find the source for.

BTW, someone also suggested to me that I put a tennis ball in the exhaust pipes to keep them closed, and close the vents (which was already suggested)

larry

[rzepko6194]

Originally posted by larry47us
I think you are underestimating the mice. You can't fold up the poly high enough to keep the mice out - unless you fold it over the car, and zip it along the top.

Geez, just like a car bubble! Why does it seem like this thread is trying to avoid these? They really aren't that expensive (about $350). I've used these for years on my vehicles which are stored in unheated "dead" space. Never had an issue.

My Carrera lives with heated luxury in busy garage (my workshop), so a bubble is not needed. Although, it would help protect it against the occasional thrown wrench!

Again, just my .02. (and no, I don't sell these)

[Grady Clay]

OK, to summarize some of the things I forgot to address:

Yes, how do the auto / aero museums preserve their automobiles and aircraft? I would be particularly interested in the auto and aero museums that maintain their inventory in road / flight worthy condition.

What to do to protect the clutch surfaces and brake rotors?

What is the best way to preserve the paint finish? Is just a fresh coat of wax best or are there other options?

Preserving the finish on the wheels is probably different than the paint finish. What is best?

What is best to preserve the rubber hood - door – Targa – Cabriolet seals?

Should you leave the doors, hood, vent windows, Targa and Cab tops slightly ajar?

Is it worthwhile or counterproductive to occasionally crank the engine with the transmission in neutral and the fuel & ignition disconnected?



Larry,
I think the issue with light bulbs or other heaters is air circulation as well as heat.

I would put the heat under the engine, not in the engine compartment. This allows the warm air to circulate up through the engine. I would put the heat on the floorboards. This allows warm air to circulate up past the dash and into the passenger compartment. I’m not sure about the trunk. Who has a suggestion and argument?

Larry is right on, a small mouse can JUMP into a 30 gal steel trash can of dog food. There are only two solutions; kill them or hermetically seal your Porsche.
Can you imagine a nest of poisoned dead mice in your heat exchanger?

JP,
I support the idea of a garage-within-a-garage. It can be a bubble, tent, wood or metal enclosure. The point is it provides a more protective environment, certainly from thrown wrenches.


Best,
Grady

[rzepko6194]

A few more items to add:

Leave the emergency brake off.

Keep the car in neutral. You may forget it's in gear next time you just reach in and try to start it. I've seen this happen at a dealer I worked at years ago. The car flew across the shop and was stopped by another car! Fortunately, no one was standing in between them!

Put a wheel chock under a tire to keep it from rolling. Just remember to take it out before you drive off!

Some of the leather conditioner outfits recommend covering your leather seats in plastic, to keep them moist while in storage.

Place an open box of baking soda in the car to keep it fresh smelling.

[derek murray]

... another great and timely Pelican thread, especially for us in the frozen north. Thanks Grady.

nostatic: what's a mortgage?

[vash]

ok, nostatic and derek almost gave me a laugh heart attack. not bad for a one-two punch.

grady, that was a great write up. in cali we dont freeze, but maybe an extended parking session will happen. hope not. it blows my mind that rodents are such a big problem, amazing!

[Grady Clay]

Vash,

My mom (89) lives in North Bezerkley Hills (East Bay). I occasionally find some serious Rattus rattus in the traps I set. This is only 200 yards or so from Tilden Park so when the weather changes in November/December the critters come looking for food and warmth.
Vasek sent me up the street (PCH in Hermosa Beach) to get some Porsche posters I wanted. I was almost caught by a rat trap in the race shop attic.
Yes, these are a problem everywhere.

In NorCal (Bay area) you have local issues with fog/salt from the ocean. How do you deal with that?

Best,
Grady

[Randy Webb]

AH yes in all this no one mentioned the e-brake...

Grady - MgCl - Yow!

One other tip: Even if your state does not use any salt (regualr salt or MgCl, which is a salt of Mg), they likely use grit on top of snow for traction. The grit of course is abrasive to your finish.

re: above the boiling point of water ... not actually required -- you can volatilize (vaporize) all the water w/o boiling it. It will take longer. You've all seen this happen when you left a pan of water out and it eventually all evaporated. But it's better to get the engine nice and warm for a good long time -- a 200 mile hwy trip would be optimal.

I agree that not all museums care about xlnt driveability. It will be very useful tho to know what they do.

Soneone might want to compile the tips here into one downloadable list -- it could be separated as 1. "we all agree", and 2. "things we differ on, but might still be good to do." Not me - Ok? I drive mine in our mild valley winters in W. Or.

[vash]

yes, grady, fog and sea salt are always on my mind. i used to live two blocks from the ocean. the only thing that came to mind was to stay up with the regular carwashes and to do them correctly. get up into the nooks and crannies.

the rodent issue is huge, storing food and pet food in the garage is definately a real bad idea then (as mentioned). hell, cleaning up the garage should be the first step to any extended car storage. clean up all possible bedding material, etc.

intuitively, keeping large containers of water and antifreeze feels right, but grady, how does that help? it is late in the day, and i am having a hard time wrapping my brain around it...sorry.

cliff