Winter storage checklist?

[Grady Clay]

Randy,

Yes, the grit is an issue although I’d rather deal with the grit than the salt (CaCL, MgCl, or other.)

I agree the water will evaporate sooner or later. For this application it is best to be sooner.

In the winter you have the opportunity to tour east of the mountains into dry country. Do you guys go up to the Channeled Scablands in Washington?

I am adding all the recommendations as an edit to what I wrote. I’ll post a revised version at some point. Please help with the edit.

Best,
Grady
gradyclay@hotmail.com

[larry47us]

Grady:

Are your procedures important for overwinter storage whether the car is stored in either a heated or an unheated garage? I know that condensation is the main issue. I know that in the winter, my wife's car never gets frost on her windshield when it is parked in the garage, but the snow dropping off her car will certainly create a humid condition in the garage.

BTW, here's a picture of someone what had a different approach to storing their Porsche (on the right) in the winter. I am sure that this resolved the rodent problem!! My thought is that you don't recommend this approach.

larry

[Grady Clay]

Larry,

Yes, I remember that picture.

I think the two critical issues are a stable temperature and consistent low humidity environment. With another car daily coming and going with snow under the fenders won’t be very good.

This is the situation where the garage-within-a-garage idea and a dehumidifier would work well.

Best,
Grady

[Grady Clay]

Many years ago (’70?), I built a box to store my 904 inside my unheated part of the “Hobby Shop.”

In answering Larry’s question some thoughts came to mind.

A garage-within-a-garage should be portable so you can shift its position.
It only needs to be about 6’6”x 7’x16’, depending on your 911.
It can be homemade with simple 1x2, fiberglass insulation and a vapor barrier.
It should have metal on all six sides – rodent proof.
An easy to use door facing the garage door.
Should be spaced above the concrete floor for air circulation.
You can have a simple pulley arrangement to pull the 911 in place.
It should have provision for light bulb heaters and a mechanical dehumidifier with outside drain.
I would wire fire/smoke and fuel vapor sensors into the house alarm system.
Of course you will want some lights so you can show off your prize.

After puzzling over the above, I contacted a local portable building manufacturer and he will e-mail me plans and price tomorrow for a commercial version that I can post here.

The next thought was an enclosed trailer, depending on the size (depth) of your garage and length of trailer. With a small enclosed trailer (or large garage) this might be an option for some.


If you have an enclosed trailer that you tow your 911 in, don’t use it as storage garage without some precautions. Trailers (even insulated) that sit in the outdoors are notorious for wide swings in temperature and lots of condensation. A trailer with 911 inside should be in some sort of enclosed structure away from rain, snow, and daily temperature extremes. A dehumidifier is an absolute necessity unless in a dry desert.


If someone puts plastic on the concrete floor, there is the issue of mould and mildew. The home centers sell an anti-fungal product designed for wet carpets. I think that would be useful treatment for the concrete prior to putting down plastic.


Best,
Grady

[rzepko6194]

Dehumidiers are fine if the temps are moderate. I don't think they function properly in cold environments (under 50 degrees). In cold climates, air circulation is needed to prevent condensation from forming on the vehicle. A small fan should provide enough air movement to prevent this from happening.

[RickM]

Originally posted by larry47us
Rick:

I think you are underestimating the mice. You can't fold up the poly high enough to keep the mice out - unless you fold it over the car, and zip it along the top. Grady was correct. A mouse can get into any space that he can get his head into. He can also climb up what seems to you to be a vertical wall. Your only protection against mice is - to snap trap them. I don't like the poison for all kinds of reasons, not the least of which is that they crawl off and die. Maybe they will even crawl off into your 911 and croak, leaving you with a strange smell that you can't find the source for.

larry

Larry, I've been battling mice for quite some time. I do feel that folding the edges up several inches will work. However, I'd also continue to keep traps inside the car and trunk to insure success (also outside and with the plastic "tray").
Additionally, I'll use the scented mothball disk hangers (with the nicer scent) to make the environment uncomfortable. IMO,. the Bounce sheets aren't strong enough to offend the little Ba$tards.

[Randy Webb]

folding the edges up several inches might or might not work. It depends on the physical condition of the mouse, the species, and its motivation.

Nearly any species can jump a few inches with no problem however. Most mice species are not likely to go inside houses. The one that is, _Peromyscus_ can jump fairly well, but not like the super mice of the jumping world such as _Zapus_ a North American genus of jumping mice.

Clear as mud? I'd go way up with the plastic - 18" -- of course, mice can also climb up something else and then jump downwards into the car. Be sure there is no food smell.

Now, how wants to hear about the cleverest bear technique for entering VW bugs and getting a picnic?

[Grady Clay]

Grainger (expensive) dehumidifier $170 manufactured by Whirlpool.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1613503469&ccitem=
It lists temperature range 0-44F.
I think there are some high end dehumidifiers that have a defrost cycle.
All dehumidifiers generate some heat, just multiply the Volts times the Amps for a close number of Watts.
This one is115V x 7.2A = 828 VA. That probably is about 700 Watts when running. I would expect its duty cycle in a small 911 space to be less than 5%. That is equivalent to about 40W continuous.

Try Lowes, Home Depot, and Wal-Mart for better prices.

Best,
Grady

[rzepko6194]

Originally posted by Grady Clay
Grainger (expensive) dehumidifier $170 manufactured by Whirlpool.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1613503469&ccitem=
It lists temperature range 0-44F.

That's neat, I didn't think there was such thing as a cold weather dehumidifier.

I'll stick with my bubble for the vehicles stored up in Lake Placid. The average mid-winter daily temp is about 10 F. Nightime could be 20 degrees F below zero or lower! Humidity probably doesn't matter at those temps anyway.

[Grady Clay]

JP,

Let me propose two scenarios:

Your 911 has been at -20 overnight and the next day is bright and clear. The air around your cold 911 shoots up to +20F. The warm air, carrying some moisture, goes past the cold (say -10F) Porsche parts. With a 30 degree differential some moisture will condense (probably as ice crystals) on those parts. Most will eventually evaporate again but some will do damage. Repeat this every day and you get my point.

The other is when the weather changes. The change in atmospheric pressure and temperature will draw outside air into the engine and other. That flow brings humidity with it. The outflow will take some (but not all) water with it. The remaining moisture will do damage.



OK, how does a dehumidifier work?

These little refrigerators only work in a small temperature range. They have to condense atmospheric humidity into liquid water so it can drip off the cool coils and be drained outside. That doesn’t work below freezing because you just get a lump of ice that stays in place. Cold weather dehumidifiers will condense the humidity as ice on the coils and then have a “defrost” cycle that gets the ice to melt to water and drain to the outside. I think they turn off the fan during the defrost cycle to minimize the moisture going back into the atmosphere.

I was puzzled by the high temp spec. Upon reflection, I think that is because these devices have very small cooling capacity and won’t get the cool coil temperature down to condensation levels at higher air temperatures.


Best,
Grady

[Chris Lovell]

Thoughts from outside Beantown:
I've used Bounce sheets (only that brand) inside per the advice of friend you has used them with good results in his lake camp in Canada.
I also suggest you leave all doors latched but ajar to keep the rubber moldings from over compressing.
I am interested in passive humidity control products. (Basically a bucket of H2O absorbing chemicals) Do they work?
And, has anyone made their own 911 bubble? Seems I could buy a 16x24 poly tarp and whip on up in a hurry.
Thanks.

[Grady Clay]

Chris,

Thanks for reviving this thread. This is very appropriate this time of year.

I can tell I let the thread get away without answering some questions. I’ll try and fix that.

Here is the link to the thread “Does salt evaporate?” This has some good information:
Does salt "evaporate"?

The powdered salt residue issue is particularly important here in Colorado. We have occasional snow events where DOT goes crazy dispensing MgCl. We then typically have extended periods of nice dry weather (300 days of golf.) In the winter we almost never get any rain to wash off the roads. The powdered salt issue may be far worse than anyone suspects.

Best,
Grady

[Chris Lovell]

Grady and others,
What do you think about me making my own 911 envelope with a polytarp (cut to fit with velcro or zipper) and leaving a bucket of "DryOut" in the envelope with the car?
Just the sort of grass roots "looks terrible but works" project I like.

[randywebb]

H2O absorbing chemicals... Do they work?

- Yes. They are crystals of a hygroscopic substance and need to be put into the oven to dry them out again for reuse. Not sure how much you need per car interior, or how often to do the reheating.

[twobone]

bump for that time of year again

[ken_xman]

anyone ever use WD-40 and spray down the engine?? ... ex girlfriends father used to do that to his 60's show vettes for winter storage...

[Doug&Julie]

Another timely bump...great info here.

[bonaturtle]

Guess I avoid a lot of this work by having a heated garage in Chicago, plus a lift, so it's away from any salt or rodents. Washed the car, changed the oil, threw some extra air in the tires, put the car cover on, and raised her up.

Where would I find a trickle charger for the battery? Also moving the car a few inches every couple weeks wouldn't be a bad idea, I have just enough room to move her back and forth about a foot or so.

[Doug&Julie]

Originally posted by bonaturtle
Where would I find a trickle charger for the battery?

Sage advice on another thread has led me to this:

http://www.batterytender.com/

Get the "Battery Tender Plus".

[porsche930dude]

heres a question for ya. Does higher octane fuel stay fresh longer or doesnt it make a difference?