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Insane Dutchman
 
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Fitting 6 speed G50 to '89 Carrera

I have my new project car, an 89 Carrera in good shape, minus engine and transmission. Idea is to rebuild the 930/03 engine I have, fit a G50 (standard in the car) and live happily ever after restoration. i would love to fit a 6 speed G50, but from the pictures I have seen, 6th gear fits in the nose housing of the transmission which **may** not fit in the '89 chassis. I have heard that it would take as shortening of the clutch housing and some modifications to the torsion tube for things to fit. Anyone out there ever done this conversion or have insight as to what is required? Thanks

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Old 10-04-2004, 08:50 PM
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Another refugee from Rennlist....

Welcome aboard Dennis....I'm sure someone will chime in here....

Wil
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Old 10-05-2004, 07:21 AM
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I posted this in the other thread as well
6 spd t/p

Long story short, lots of cutting of chassis components, tube frame, some fabrication and you're good to go.
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Old 10-05-2004, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Verburg
I posted this in the other thread as well
6 spd t/p

Long story short, lots of cutting of chassis components, tube frame, some fabrication and you're good to go.
I've always been curious about this as well.

Bill-

The car in that link states it originally came with a 915, so it had to be a pre-`87 chassis. So, even if you wanted to put a 5-speed G50 in a 915-equipped car, you would need to cut the T-tube, and do some fabrication work. However, I am not sure the same work is required to put a 6-speed G50 (993) gearbox in a 5-speed G50 (`87+) chassis??

Inquiring minds.....
Old 10-05-2004, 03:32 PM
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There are several strategies that have been used to fit a G50 in a t-bar car
  • move the engine back
  • use the short bellhousing version of the G50
  • shorten the trans main shaft
  • install a G50 t-bar tube
  • various combos of all of the above

I used to have a pic of all 3 of the trans, 915,G50, G50/21 laying next to each other. But I can only find the G50/21, it's much longer than the others.
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Old 10-05-2004, 04:02 PM
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Insane Dutchman
 
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I have heard that fitting a G50 in a car which originally had a 915 is a pain on both ends of the spinal cord, but the question is how much effort to put a 6 speed G50 into a car that had a 5 speed G50 originally. The picture of the 6 speed sure looks long, but then again....
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Old 10-05-2004, 06:16 PM
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Dennis, I just looked under my G50 car and took some quick measurements. From the part line shown in the photo, the G50 5spd nose cone housing is 4" not including the actual shift rod. There is an additional 2" space between the front of the housing and body. Looks very possible, though I'm not familiar with the structural integrity of that area. Looks like you could cut the sheet metal and rebox it in to fit the new tranny. As far as the transmission mount is concerned, I wonder if it would mount at the second arrow? Looks to be about the right spot.

Old 10-05-2004, 06:50 PM
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Insane Dutchman
 
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Thanks for taking the measurement, an interesting measurement would be to find the distance from the hole in the big rubber mount at the front (nose) end and the centre line of the drive flanges on both the 5 speed and 6 speed. If I believe the diagrams I have in various books, I think it will be the same on both transmissions.....then the question would be whether the 2"of clearance you measured is enough for the additional housing.....question is the 2" clearance between the rubber mount and the chassis or between the top of the nose piece on your 5 speed and the chassis?
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Old 10-05-2004, 08:37 PM
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Dennis, here is a poor quality pic of my tranny when I had it out for a clutch job. I hadn't thought about it but perhaps the '89 turbo G50 is mounted different than the NA G50, though I don't think so. As you can see there is no front rubber mount on mine, and the measurements I gave earlier are based on this.

Old 10-05-2004, 09:15 PM
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Insane Dutchman
 
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Wow...didn't realize they were that different, obviously my diagrams are waaaaay out to lunch! I suspect that the '89 Euro cars were not all that much different....

The front of the transmission looks very similar, guessing from proportions, it seems to be very similar. The nose piece is really different though, not sure if it would even come close to fitting, definitely that large rubber donut would need to go somewhere.

Have to think some more about how to get the two side by side and see what is different in terms of dimensions. Hmmm....much to think about......
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Old 10-05-2004, 09:28 PM
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Insane Dutchman
 
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Took a bit of time this afternoon and scanned in the cross sections (out of Frere's book) of the 5 speed and 6 speed G50 transmissions and overlaid them in Photoshop.

Given that one is prepared to remove the rear mounting lug (the big doughnut on the nose of the transmission) and the associated aluminium casting, looks like the difference in length of the two transmissions is about 63mm +/- 2mm or so (about 2 1/2 inches). I wonder if there is enough room in the '89 for this extra length...Turbocabmike measured about 2 inches clearance?

Only worry would be the flattened torsion tube...any insight from anyone? I think that the changeover to the G50 resulted in a flattened torsion tube with nothing in teh section at that point, seems like a bit more denting to clear a 6 speed ought to be do-able.

Other thought is to shorten the bell housing in the same manner as people have done to fit a G50 into the pre-87 cars....all it would need would be an inch or so to give plenty of clearance.

BTW, thanks to all who have responded, this is great stuff!!
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Old 11-14-2004, 07:43 PM
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Wow, this is cool, get this going and done so we have the numbers from some one who has done it. Seems like a great swap if not too hard. How much extra will the 6 spd weigh, I wonder.
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Old 11-14-2004, 08:47 PM
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I would think that you shouldn't dent the TT. And when you shorten a G50 the most you loose is maybe 1.25". So I would think you would have to move the motor as well. I know I had to move the motor .75" to the rear with my G50 conversion
Dean
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Old 11-14-2004, 08:53 PM
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Insane Dutchman
 
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Tend to agree that denting the TT is not a great idea, I was thinking more about clearance bumps and so forth.

If the numbers in the recent posts are correct, then things should fit without moving the engine. Given that there is 2 inches space with the 5 speed, and we gain another 1.25 from the shortened bell housing, and we need 2 1/2...let me see, we'd have about 3/4 inch space between the nose of the 6 speed transmission and the TT....should be enough? I think?

In terms of weight, according to the various documents I have, the 6 speed is actually very similar in weight to the 5 speed. Porsche apparently put it on a diet when the added the 6th speed, thinning the castings in spots to make up for the weight gain. ....so it ought to be fine.

I have emailed Patrick Motorsports about shortening the bell housing, anyone else do this kind of work (at reasonable rates??)
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Old 11-14-2004, 09:18 PM
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Very interesting, would be nice if it could go right in with a shortened bellhousing. Does anyone have pics of a 6spd in an early (915) car?
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Old 11-14-2004, 09:35 PM
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Bobby Hart at Califonia Motorsports does a nice job shortening the housing. Sam Shaila (sp) at Proteknik (again sp) in TX shortened mine. Patrick was double the price and twice the attitude of the above. Are you going to take the tranny apart or have them do it?
Dean
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Old 11-15-2004, 05:26 AM
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Insane Dutchman
 
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OK, next step in the process. G50 6 speed is supposed to be shipped this Thursday, got a good price for a '97 6 speed, 27,000 miles. Now the fun starts.

First step is to get the thing fitted to my engine, move it up to the chassis and confirm that I need to find ~63mm of room somewhere to fit this thing in. According to what I have been hearing, I can take at least 28 mm off of the bell housing, there is ~50mm between the nose of the transmission and the TT, and an option of ~15 mm movement of the engine mount. We shall see.

I am also wondering about which flywheel to use. I gather the G50 uses the same 240 mm clutch as the Turbo w. 930 transmission. I will be using an aftermarket engine management system, so retaining the Motronic reference and speed sensors is not an issue, although within the bell housing is the right place to put the EMS sensors. Figure a Turbo flywheel is somewhere in the works, but then again, does everyone with a G50 use that fancy dual mass flywheel/clutch all the time or does anyone change it out for a "normal" flywheel and clutch?

Anyway, the musing continue....

Dennis
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Old 01-16-2005, 04:30 PM
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With my shortened G50 I use an early 930 flywheel. I have an early 930 motor though. If you shorten the G50 I think you get rid of the dual mass crap. I just bought a KEP stage 1 PP with a G50 diaphram for my car. You might want to call KEP to check out your options. They are good to deal with.
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Old 01-16-2005, 05:48 PM
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Insane Dutchman
 
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Sounds sensible, fits the picture as far as I see it, plus every thing I read suggests that the 5 and 6 speed G50's are the same pretty well, just the length is different.

BTW, who is KEP? Don't know them.....

Does Pelican sell these parts as well (like to support them if I can)

Dennis
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Old 01-16-2005, 07:34 PM
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Old 01-16-2005, 08:07 PM
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