Fat Pig Carrera is underbraked!

MotoSook · 07:22 AM

I'm sure I could make pads last longer (cooling), but all that mass from the luxo options were too much.

Here is what happens when you take a fat arse pig to the track with Ferodo pads. These worked great on the ’76 Bastard, but the extra mass of the Fat Pig Bastard was too much for them.

I never expected them to wear so quickly (8.25 sessions on the track of 20-30 minutes each, on a 1.9 mile track), so I never checked them between sessions. These same pads lasted 4-5 track days and still have life on them on my ’76 Bastard, but I would guess that the ’76 is between 500-800 lbs lighter. Fortunately, the pads gave out on the last session of the weekend and I didn’t waste track fee. I didn’t get any fading until the last session, and I didn’t expect to have worn them down so far….

The little raised pucks are pad material and melted sand pockets that I picked up off the slow parts of the track (sandy grassy area

)

Schrup · Schrup's Garage

I'd say it's time for the angle grinder & sawzall.

Take a few hundred pounds off that pig!!! Have you considered some good kevlar pads, like the Porterfields? They're a lot cheaper than the Pagid.
http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/pads.html

Jim Richards · 10-11-2004, 07:30 AM

Hmmmm. Note to self: "Make sure Souk is never just behind you entering corners at Road America next Spring."

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

Have ypu considered a race pad like Pagid? It's always good to have an extra set with ya at the track....of course you learned that NOW.

How are the rotors?

MotoSook · 10-11-2004, 07:38 AM

I always carry spares and an arsenal of tools and other stuff that I don't usually need. I think I have 1/2 a car in my "Spare Catagory"

I might have swapped those out if I had been checking them, but I took a nap in the "check eveything between sessions" catagory because these same pad type lasted so well in my Bastard.

Rotors are not too bad Mike. They just started to meet (pad backing and rotor), but I'm rebuilding all the braking this winter with rotors and rebuilt calipers..so I'm not too concerned.

These Ferodos worked very well for me as a combo street and track pad, but that was on my lighter car. I'd still like to get a combo pad (perhaps PF's) for this car, but next year, I'll have a dedicated track car with a major brake upgrade compared to the stock brakes.

Jim, I don't think I'll need to brake so much when following you around a track...why when you are hardly out of 3rd gear

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Yup, you just hit the "F troop" wall, affects those in PCA E stock as well.

The only thing you can do w/o spending a lot of $ that will also move you to prepared is lose as much mass as possible, BIG ducts, race pads

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

I have a picture somewhere that looks like that - only mine toasted my rotors too...

Jim Richards · 10-11-2004, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Souk
I'd still like to get a combo pad (perhaps PF's) for this car, but next year, I'll have a dedicated track car with a major brake upgrade compared to the stock brakes.

Jim, I don't think I'll need to brake so much when following you around a track...why when you are hardly out of 3rd gear

Souk, I have PF97's and they're kind of OK on the street when I'm too lazy to put my Hawk street pads back in. The PF97's are very nice on the track.

In response to your other comment, I'm glad that you already realize that you'll be the one following me around the track. Hope you can keep up.

MotoSook · 10-11-2004, 08:03 AM

I think I'll add a set of race pads in the spare parts bin in case I HAVE to take the Fat Pig on the track again, but since it's my "supposed daily driver" I'd like to stay with a street/track pad. I might just keep using the Ferodo's on the Carrera. They have great bite when cold and little to no fading when hot. I like the material, but they are just not up to hauling 2800+ pounds down to cornering speed.

PF97 are on the list of parts I'll added to the spare parts bin...

The Padgids are too finicky (noise) and hard on rotors...so I'm trying to stay away from them. (am I mis-informed? Bill?)

Paul, kevlar pads? Performance when cold/hot?

Jim, you won't see the Fat Pig at RA...no way I'm I going to take the fat bastard to RA....I'm finishing the original Bastard even if I have to take some vaction time...or I'll just buy an already prepped race car ...then sell it after the weekend

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

The Padgids are too finicky (noise) and hard on rotors...so I'm trying to stay away from them. (am I mis-informed? Bill?)

Oranges are(they are an old compound), yellow are far better

MotoSook · 10-11-2004, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill Verburg
Oranges are(they are an old compound), yellow are far better

Good to know Bill. Thanks!

KTL · 11:15 AM

I'll bet Souk does one of these

when he sees the Pagid Yellow $ versus the Ferodo DS2500 or PF 97 cost.

Not saying the Yellows aren't worth it (because I don't have a clue), just saying the Yellows cost alot more than the others mentioned. Sounds like a case of "you get what you pay for." And it also sounds like a case of "pay attention to what Bill V says- he knows his brake stuff!"

Bill always says the Ferodos are nice for the occasional DE, but better pads can be had. I guess you've proven his claim quite well Souk!

KTL · 10-11-2004, 11:25 AM

Maybe this topic is another place to list the stuff that makes a Carrera so much heavier (according to Souk...........

)

Stuff I can think of:

>A/C
>power seats
>power windows
>bigger sway bars
>G50 trans. is 50lb. heavier
>Thicker brake rotors (which is a good thing, but heavier nonetheless)
>CIS vs. 3.2 Motronic induction & electronics??? Dunno......
>center console
>automatic heating (if you have it)
>F/R spoilers, which is probably a non-issue because so many do this upgrade

Please add to the list!

MotoSook · 10-11-2004, 11:31 AM

I know how to lighten these fat pigs....trade it in for a striped out track car...

Dude..it's just FAT! FAT! FAT! FAT! Wait...did I say it's FAAAATTTT!

I'm not going to touch it though...I like the soft cushy leather seats....I might even add weight...a 10 disc CD player and a 10" LCD screen w/ a Play station

KobaltBlau · 10-11-2004, 11:33 AM

Do not underestimate what you can do with good airflow and proper pads. I strongly believe that track specific pads will help brake heat problems, because they are in contact with the rotors for less time, typically. They also stand up better to track (ab)use.

Get some good brake ducts on there with track specific pads. The KFP Magnum Golds are fairly cheap, and they have worked very well for me. Easier on the rotors than Hawk Blues, but I don't think the pads last as long.

MotoSook · 10-11-2004, 11:40 AM

You guys are forgetting that I bought this car because I got it for a below market price....and because I didn't want to miss out on the last two track days with the Chicago PCA....

I don't plan to track this car, but rather use it as a stand-in when the other car is "under the knife."

I could do a lot of bastardization to make this fat pig somewhat more track worthy, but then I'd never get to the other car to finish it...then I'll be looking for an already built track car next spring...then I'll be living alone in a cheap apartment above a bar downtown....see..someone might just find my habits a little to much and kick my arse out of the house...

WAIT! That might be fun...upstairs from a bar..with three 911's and not one to ....mmmmm...nah!

BUT! These fat pigs ARE underbraked

Eagledriver · 10-11-2004, 12:05 PM

You are not going to find a good compromise pad unless you want to drive like a wuss on the track. I swap pads if I don't want to put up with the noise of the track pads. I use hawk blue pads. They will last about 5 race weekends for me (2 hours per weekend at speed).

-Andy

North Coast Cab · North Coast Cab's Garage

Souk,
I'm running the Performance Friction 97 pads on my 3.2 based on Chris' recommendation and I've been very happy. They're not great on the street cold but you'll get used to them. I've got 24 session on the track this year and they still have life left. The rotors are in very good shape also. I run cooling ducts up fron which may help. Maybe if you didn't treat the car so poorly you'd get a better respons from it. I'm sure it's self esteem is way down at this point.

John

MotoSook · 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by North Coast Cab
Souk,

...

Maybe if you didn't treat the car so poorly you'd get a better respons from it. I'm sure it's self esteem is way down at this point.

John

LOL! She's a fat pig and that's all there is to it... the fat ho smokes too! I keep telling her smoking is bad, but nooooo she smokes in the garage as soon as she wakes up and at every stoplight. And she drinks 20/50 like it's going out of style. Hell the guys following me during the Fun Run were complaining about her smell all afternoon. Every now and then she even blows a fart out the tail pipe... Worn down beeotch!

KobaltBlau · 10-11-2004, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Souk
because I didn't want to miss out on the last two track days with the Chicago PCA....

I don't plan to track this car, but rather use it as a stand-in when the other car is "under the knife."

I could do a lot of bastardization to make this fat pig somewhat more track worthy, but then I'd never get to the other car to finish it.

Which is why you should do some good air ducts (or at a minimum 993 diverters) and track pads if you are going to track the car any more. Fairly inexpensive but necessary if you are going to track the car, IMO. Most of this stuff should be transferable to the other car anyway.

What I do is I take out my track pads when I don't have a DE for more than 2 weeks. That just works best for me.

Souk, did you get my last email?