Sage advice requested

[Thrasher]

Hi all.

I’ve been lurking here a few months, trying to soak in all that I can without asking stupid questions. The archives are unbelievable. Wayne, I hope you’re backing the message board database up regularly!

I bought my first 911 on July 1 of this year after lusting these cars for the last 20. I think I did a fair amount of research beforehand and am still very happy with my purchase. Given that I paid well below Excellence values for the car, I planned to invest more money into bringing the car to its potential glory

So far, I’ve replaced the 02 sensor, rear rotors and pads (have bought fronts but they’re about 6 months away from needing refreshing) and removed a very poorly installed ‘80’s stereo (not stock) and installed a more modern CD unit and a pair of MB Quart 6.5’s in the doors (amp is coming).

I’d say my primary use for the car is “spirited driving” on country roads, with DE events once/twice per year. No track racing is in my plans (at least for now). I don’t plan to use the car in foul weather, either.

The car is essentially stock, minus the airbox, which was converted to K&N Cone filter at some point (maybe a backfire?) Here are the details:

’84 3.2 Carrera Coupe

150k miles

Body repainted after deer to passenger door incident. I’d rate the body “Very Good”

15” Phone Dial Wheels with Dunlop 215/55/15’s (80% tread)

Stock Exhaust, a bit tame for my liking

No spoilers/tail (front or rear)

A/C – not working presently, but black on black in St. Louis summers may require me getting it going, and certainly for resale it would be nice to have. However, falls very low on my list unless I can get it going with just a freon charge.

Overall, the car is very good condition. The body is straight, but the corners are obviously not balanced and it needs aligning, as it pulls slightly to the left on hard braking. Obviously, new wheels/tires would improve handling. I measured the ride height as described in 101 Projects and it’s off all the way around and not within spec L-R on either “axle”. I’m planning on addressing that and will lower to Euro spec, but I realize an alignment will be required, so I’d like to address other items (e.g. Turbo tie rods) at the same time since I have the luxury of not driving the car daily.

Mechanically, it’s also “Very Good”. The motor is strong, burns no oil and there’s no smoke – ever. The transmission was rebuilt a few years ago (less than 30k miles) and shifts fairly well for a 915, although 3rd is sometimes a b*tch to find, especially cold. I have yet to drain and fill it with Swepco, but am planning on it. The car leaks only a very small amount of oil, maybe 2 drips after each drive. I’d like to address that next time the engine is out, but that won’t (hopefully) be anytime soon.

The PO always kept Mobil 1 in it, which I’ll probably continue.

Here are the items I’ve put on my wish list in no particular order:

Steve W. Chip

H4 headlight upgrade

Turbo Tie Rods and bump steer kit

Fuchs or aftermarket wheels and wider tires

Exhaust upgrade (but must keep heat and pass Missouri smog inspection)

Turbo Valve covers

Swepco Trans. Oil

Short Shift kit

Gate Shift kit

I’m fully planning on DE seat time as a budget item, and I’ve set aside for that in my budget.

So, my question is, what order would you address these items in, and what would you add/delete from my list? My budget is limited on an immediate basis, but long-term, I plan to keep putting $$ into the car and keeping it indefinitely.




Thanks in advance,

Craig

[jpnovak]

Hi Craig, welcome to the board. Sounds like you are off to a great start. Since you already found the archives you are ahead of the game. You are correct that there is a tremendous amound of information there.

I think I would change a few things on the list. First, I would sort out the braking system to get rid of the pulling to one side. This typically is caused by a sticking caliper. I would spend about $75 for 4 rebuild kits and tear down the calipers. Polish the bores and pistons while they are apart and then replace the seals.

Next, I would get the car lowered and aligned. Now your car will perform better and stop great.

Do you drive the car at night? If so, I would suggest upgrading the lights to H4s with relays and new bulbs. Then ditch the fog lights for some driving lights. rewire them so they can operate with the high beams.

Now, as long as the car is in good mechanical condition go drive it. Spend your money on the few DEs or Autocrosses. Spend your Saturdays exploring the back roads in MO. Do this for the first 6-12 months until you are very comfortable with the car. Do this on skinney street tires until you can hang the tail out at will and can threshold brake. Once the car is sorted and you now how to drive it properly and to its high limits then look at upgrades.

YOur list of upgrades looks great and is a usual list. Do them as time and budget allow. Things to think about. You don't really need turbo valve covers. Just plane your existing ones on a flat section of glass to get rid of the twist and warpage. This will save some money. I hear the WEVO shift products are fantastic.

Enjoy your new car.

[Grady Clay]

Craig,

I too lurked for a couple of years before I settled in on Pelican. Welcome.
Nice coupe! It looks like you have been paying attention.


I’ll be in Pleasant Hill, MO (SE of KC) Thursday night.
Kurt V and I are meeting for lunch in Jefferson City to talk Porsche, 11:00 AM Friday. Is that something you can come to? Are you in St. Louis or Harrison Co? A bit of a drive either way.

The best way to reach me after 5 AM Thursday is Karen’s cell 720-234-5074. I will check e-mail Thursday night or Friday morning.

Best,
Grady
gradyclay@hotmail.com

[masraum]

make sure the car is running top notch first Steve W. Chip

this is a great upgrade H4 headlight upgrade

not a bad idea with the stock rubber 15+ years old, but unless you lower your car below Euro spec you don't need the bump steer kit Turbo Tie Rods and bump steer kit

this will be pricey Fuchs or aftermarket wheels and wider tires

not necessary, but you're right, could be a little louder than stock, just a muffler and you should be fine Exhaust upgrade (but must keep heat and pass Missouri smog inspection)

Hmm, do the early 3.2's not come with those?? Turbo Valve covers

1 Swepco Trans. Oil

not necessary but a valid upgrade Short Shift kit

do this with the short shift Gate Shift kit

I'd do the cap, rotor, and maybe wires. Unless you have a record that says when the shocks/struts were done I'd put new shocks/struts and bushings ahead of almost everything else on your list. If these aren't in good shape then the tie rods and alignment won't mean much. The shocks struts can feel fine and look ok going by the old bounce test, but since the suspension on these cars is so stiff that doesn't matter. They felt fine on my old '88 at about 135K miles, but they were some of the most worn out shocks I've ever seen.

An '86 car wouldn't have a backfire to worry about like an SC would. We don't have the exploding airbox. He probably just changed to the K&N because he thought it was cool, would make more power, or was an upgrade. It does give you tons more room in the engine compartment.

Sounds like you've done some good research. I'd say the way to start is to make sure everything is in top notch shape before upgrading most things. Just some things that come to mind that you might want to consider if you don't know if/when they've been done.

pedal bushings, suspension bushings, shocks/struts, cap, rotor, wires, plugs, check the rubber fuel lines in the engine compartment, especially the one that runs between the fuel rails on the far side of the intake, fuel filter, tie rods (you've already targetted this), ball joints, wheel bearings, cv joints, and unless you had a PPI that did a leak down and compression check I'd do a compression check and pull the valve covers and check the head studs (they do break on Carreras), and as you've already said tires and alignment. As said above, look into the brakes, on the Carrera's it seems fairly common for the front passenger's side to start dragging. I'd put all new rubber lines on, and rebuild the calipers (really easy to do, only one moving part). Also, I'd check out and look at replacing or lubricating the clutch cable. That seems to make a huge difference on the 915 cars.

The only reason I suggested that you look into these things is that it would suck to spend your dough on some of those other upgrades and then find out that some of these other wear items need to be replaced.

[}{arlequin]

(Hopefully you've gone through the "baseline" items such as filters, plugs, fluid changes.)

I'd start w/ the handling, so brakes, suspension, tie rods would be first.

Lights are next b/c w/ good handling you will begin to drive faster and you will drive at night sooner or later.

If still having trouble finding 3rd, try out swepco, then maybe even the Seine gate shift kit. I don't have one and I've grown accustomed to really paying attention to my shifts but the cars that I've sampled w/ it are a revelation.

Exhaust is nice if you like more sound. That is a fun upgrade but expensive. I'd save this one and the chip for last, unless you have enough $$ laying around. Who doesn't like the flat six sound AND a crisp throttle response?

I'd start looking for 7 and 8" Fuchs. Not sure whether 9's fit, but I think I saw that too.

First few DEs I'd do on stock tires. The limits will be lower and you can explore them at slower speeds. Plus you shouldn't feel too bad about chewing up the tires since you know you'll be throwing a new set on the car in the future.

[Thrasher]

Wow - this is awesome. I was going to try to reply to the replies, but they're coming in too fast (a good thing).

1.

Do you drive the car at night? - jpnovak

Yes, but only occasionally. I live in a semi-rural area with a rampant deer overpopulation problem, so I'm paranoid. Already had one very close call at dusk. Was my wife's first real ride in the car and I locked 'em up and steered away from the deer. This was also just hours after I had replaced rear rotors and pads - luckily, my work was not in vain.

I'm having an issue with the turn signal stalk where both beams come on unless I flick it just right. It doesn't happen when the brights are on, or when I'm signalling. Now that the days are shorter I'm going to need to address this ASAP.

2.

Just plane your existing (valve covers) on a flat section of glass to get rid of the twist and warpage - jpnovak

Thanks - I'll do an archive search on that one and post a follow-up if necessary. Mine are actually pretty dry, but I know it's a standard upgrade

3.

Kurt V and I are meeting for lunch in Jefferson City to talk Porsche, 11:00 AM Friday. Is that something you can come to? Are you in St. Louis or Harrison Co? A bit of a drive either way.
- Grady Clay

Dang, Grady - that is very tempting. I do work a "regular" workweek and it's short notice. But maybe a 24 hour bug is coming on . I'm in the St. Louis area. Jeff City is about 100 miles West on a pretty fun road (hwy 94) for me. Let me see if I can make it happen. I'll let you know either way.

4. masraum - I think you make some excellent points.
The valve covers are flat, not reinforced like pics I've seen of turbo covers. My 3.2 is definitely "early" - 1984
On the Steve W. Chip: Are you saying I should take steps to first tune the car before the chip, or that the chip will lead to that end?

The records I have go back only 4 years; all work in past 10 years was done by Reid-Vann in STL, but their computer crashed in 2000 and all previous records were lost. The PO relied on the shop to keep records, and they sent me copies of what they had. I've spoken directly with John the service mgr at Reid Vann, and he "only" recommended the 02 sensor and perhaps an exhaust upgrade.

The clutch cable is relatively new (replaced with trans rebuild) and it feels better than some of the G50's I drove, but I will look at lubing and adjusting it.

5.

Hopefully you've gone through the "baseline" items such as filters, plugs, fluid changes.) - }{arlequin

Yep, first thing - except the plugs and trans oil. The plugs were new - had service records on this and I pulled them to verify they looked good. I haven't yet picked up the Swepco, but that's high on my list.

On the exhaust, I realize that's expensive, and I'm thinking just a muffler for enhanced sound - but will I notice anything in the "seat dyno" from this, or would that require cat bypass/SSI's/etc.?

One thing on the tires I didn't mention - for some odd reason, 3 are Dunlop 215s, the 4th (on front driver side now) is a Bridgestone 205 - which could be part of the alignment issues. How urgent should I make this? I'd rather not put $$ into one 215 if I'm going to be upgrading wheels/tires soon enough, but it is a problem

[JeremyD]

Originally posted by Thrasher
One thing on the tires I didn't mention - for some odd reason, 3 are Dunlop 215s, the 4th (on front driver side now) is a Bridgestone 205 - which could be part of the alignment issues. How urgent should I make this? I'd rather not put $$ into one 215 if I'm going to be upgrading wheels/tires soon enough, but it is a problem

This will definitely lead to pulling to one side - these cars do not tolerate mismatched tires.

Let me also recommend a dansk sport muffler. Many folks have passed emissions with a premuffler and sport muffler and Steve W chip - some just bolt on a stock exhaust for the test...

[masraum]

I'd probably put a matching tire on to replace that bridgestone, or upgrade soon.

I'd make sure all of the tune-up stuff is current before the chip. Just seems like a good idea to baseline the thing before putting any changes/improvements in.

On the matter of the highbeam/turn signal switch. You will want to get relays on the lights. You may be able to pull the steering wheel and tweak the switch, that worked for me, or you may just want to replace the switch. It's a common problem on these cars. All of the power to the headlights flows through the switch instead of just the power to actuate a relay. Since all of the power goes through the switch they eventually start warping due to the heat that they build up. On mine the switch looked ok, but of the three contacts the center contact had gotten really close to one of the outside contacts. I pulled my fogs, ran the headlights through the fog relay, and then adjusted the switch. I never again had a problem.

When you pull the wheel the high beam switch works on three contacts that you can see

|--------------------
|--------------------
|--------------------

they should look more or less like that, but after time they start to get like this

|-------------------
|_________________
|-------------------

well, not quite exactly, but you get the idea. And when the tip of the one gets close enough you start having weird problems like you hit a bump and the highs come on, or they come on when it's really humid.

If you haven't heard, Mark Sucros (hope that's the spelling) sells a relay kit that many people here have used with great success.

Oh, if you don't replace the switch and put in relays you may eventually be greeted by a large volume of nasty smelling smoke from your steering column.

[ChrisBennet]

Welcome to the board!

I agree with the others that recommend bringing everything "up to snuff" first.

I'd check to make sure you are getting full throttle travel. Locate the throttle lever in the engine compartment and have someone look at while you floor the gas pedal ot make sure that is comes within a business card thickness of hitting the stop. It's not uncommon to have this misadjusted.

Your DME has the least aggressive factory chip and you could benefit from upgrading but make sure the engine is in tune before you start - check for vacuum leaks, have CO adjusted, etc. A chip won't make a huge difference but it will make a pleasant one. If you intend to make exhaust changes you might want to wait until you've made them and then get a custom chip to match your mods.

16 or 17" wheels with modern high performance tires will make a big difference in ultimate handling. If you intend to do any autocross/high performance schools that involve skid pads and threshold braking excersizes you migh want to save your old tires for that or wait until after that to upgrade. Threshold braking involves finding out how hard you can brake before your tires lock up. You don't want to flat spot your new tires learning this!

The Turbo valve covers were standard on the Carrera.

Have fun!
-Chris

[goat]

Aligning and tires, plus the brakes I would put at the top.
What milage since your last valve adjustment?
Buy Waynes 101 book and the Bently manual if you have not already done so.
Autocross your car and enjoy.

[Grady Clay]

Craig,

You are officially invited to a three+?-person Pelican luncheon in Jefferson City, MO. All others are welcome, let us know.

We will meet at Kurt’s office at 11:00 AM CDT, Friday October 15, 2004.
It is:
Hanrahan, Smith, Trapp, & Valentine.
522 East Capitol Avenue
Jefferson City, MO 65102-3078
573-635-0282

The mission is for Kurt (mostly) and me to offer praise and recommendations. Of course we will find all sorts of things for you to spend money on – just sensibly. Pelican flock gathering in the middle of Missouri (PU country) is pretty unique.

Hope you can make it. I’m coming 3 hours from KC.

Best,
Grady

[Thrasher]

I'll search for the thread on relays before I get that unpleasant greeting. I've been reading the recent posts on the headlight upgrades, and was planning on doing relays at the time I did H4's, but I'll do the relays first and and pull the switch in the steering column for repair or replacement.

Sounds like a consensus on the mismatched tire - confirming what I was thinking about the pull. But, the troubling part is that it pulls the other way - I would think it would pull towards the smaller tire, but it doesn't.

I bought Wayne's book before the car, and will plan on getting Bentley manual, too.

The PO had a fair amount of work done right before I bought it to meet emissions. This included removing a cat bypass exhaust and sport muffler and installing a (fair condition) used OE exhaust system. The best part about that is clean, shiny stainless exhaust bolts are easy to remove.

At that time, the shop also tuned the CO, but I don't think the valves were adjusted.

The car hunts a bit for idle at startup, but is doing better with the new O2 sensor overall. I have suspected vacuum leakage, but haven't investigated. It does pretty well at running speeds, though.

Keep 'em coming!


Craig

[}{arlequin]

I would think that it will pull in the direction of more grip, therfore towards the bigger tire. More grip will overpower less grip and pull that way.

[Thrasher]

interesting theory. I was thinking more along the lines of big vs. small would rotate around the small, but the circumference is probably about the same.

[masraum]

I would expect that under heavy braking the smaller tire assuming it has less grip will lock first which will make the car pull toward the tire that isn't locked. It should be similar before the tire is locked since that tire may be slipping a little compared to the larger grippier tire.

If you locked up your brakes when you saw the deer you may want to work on threshold braking since locking them up will stop slower than not locking them up, but in emergency situations it's hard to remember that and not just jam them on.

[Oldporsche]

Thrasher,
Where is Wildwood MO?

I'm located in Spfd.

David Duffield

[Grady Clay]

David,

Craig is just west of StL, about 2 hours to Jefferson City. Springfield to Jeff City is not right next door but reachable. I'll be in KC Thursday night. Come join us.

Best,
Grady

[Grady Clay]

Any other PCA & Pelicans are welcome.

Best,
Grady

[Grady Clay]

If anyone wants to join us for lunch in Jefferson City, MO, PM Kurt V.
The flock is gathering.

Best,
Grady
7:00 AM Pleasant Hill, MO

[Thrasher]

Well, as luck would have it, I was coming in early to get some work done so I could make my way over to Jeff City, I had the misfortune of hitting a nice chunk (of asphalt) I believe on I-44 just before my exit.

By the time I rolled off the hiway, the right rear tire was going flat. I pulled into the nearest parking lot and saw the damage. Tire is probably shot and rim had a bit of a rash on the lip. Won't know til later today if the rim is bent or just a little scarred.

So, needless to say, I won't be able to make the meeting

Maybe next time,

Craig