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H4 relay kits - need feedback

Guys, I need feedback on an idea I've been throwing around.

I want to upgrade the headlight wiring to my H4s. I might offer a kit to others. The relay kit could go in 2 directions:

Option 1
1 Bosch automotive relay per filament (4 relays total)
12 AWG marine-grade wiring (actually a cable)
1 fuse or circuit breaker per relay
push-on connectors or heavy-duty Hella H4 connector

Option 2
NEC relays and fuse holders soldered on a printed circuit board
12 AWG marine cable to each headlight (same as above)
printed circuit board inside a metal enclosure

Option 1 will be less expensive ($30-35), but require more space and wiring. It will require slightly more installation time.

Option 2 will be more expensive($55-60), but is more compact and easier to install. Weights weenies will also appreciate the reduced weight.

These kits would have everything needed to go from fuse panel to the back of the headlights. I am pushing for 4 relays, since this keeps the system independent, like the stock setup. If one headlight shorts, the other headlight is unaffected. With a 2 relay system, a short in the system kills both headlights. Porsche uses 4 fuses in the stock system, so why not 4 relays.

Crazy? Stupid? No market? Brilliant idea?
Thanks, Jurgen
Old 10-25-2004, 09:35 AM
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I bought a kit off a guy from another board. He sent me the kit almost before the check reached him. I can PM you the link. Found out about it on this board.
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Old 10-25-2004, 09:37 AM
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I have the Sucro relay kit. Works well and cheaper than what you are proposing.
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Old 10-25-2004, 09:38 AM
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Like Kurt V, I too, have the Sucro relay kit installed and am very pleased with it. The instructions were crystal clear (very important to us non-EE types) and it works fine, not to mention giving me the peace of mind that the entire lighting circuit isn't going through my stalk.

The installation took me all of 30 minutes, if I remember correctly and part of that time was making it neat and being sure it was done correctly (didn't want to chance an electrical fire) as well as to making it look as factory as possible. Oh, and I I added an inline fuse after some additional reading on the board.

Your idea, as I understand it, is to go a step further and have a 4 relay kit, which is fine. (The sucro kit is 2 relays). My suggestion, if you go forward, is to include instructions that make installation as clear and straightforward as possible.

FWIW, I don't think weight is much of an issue, as all the components can't weigh more than a few ounces - I think usability and ease of installation would be paramount to potential buyers. I didn't quite understand Option 2 and what was going be soldered to the board. I would think that the relays should be removeable, in case they need to be replaced.

Just my .02
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Old 10-25-2004, 10:36 AM
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mtelliott,

Would like to have the contact info for the guy with the kit. Wonder how hard this would be to modify to use on H-1's?

Thx,

JoeA
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Old 10-25-2004, 12:00 PM
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I have serious doubts there would be any weight savings with option 2 ... and easy relay replacement would be lost, permanently -- not acceptable in my book!!! Relay replacement on a circuit board isn't much fun! Metal box would likely offset any weight savings from fewer Faston connections and relay sockets ... though appearance might be cleaner. A plastic box or cover would be a better option, regardless of plug-in or soldered relays.

I feel Type E Teflon 12 ga wire would be better than the marine wire. White, Yellow, and Brown are readily available. A 200C rating means no more concerns about overheated wiring at the connectors.

The Sucro kit is intended only for 1974 and later cars ... not 1964 - 73 cars ... so a bit of technical research or assistance is required ALREADY for owners of early cars! My suggestion is always that a 'kit' isn't needed at all! The pre-74 wiring diagrams are a lot more logical, intuitive, and easier to deal with, too!
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Old 10-25-2004, 12:10 PM
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Here's the site I have listed.

http://members.rennlist.com/msucro1/relaykit.htm

Michael
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Old 10-25-2004, 01:21 PM
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I think the proposed kit (version 2) is a no-brainer if you add plug-in relays, high temp leads and H4 high temp harnesses capable of supporting 80 or 100w bulbs.

I'd buy a kit like that at that price in a flash. I have the Sucro kit as well, but this is exactly the way I would like to go with my lights.
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Old 10-25-2004, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by joeclarke
I think the proposed kit (version 2) is a no-brainer if you add plug-in relays, high temp leads and H4 high temp harnesses capable of supporting 80 or 100w bulbs.

I'd buy a kit like that at that price in a flash. I have the Sucro kit as well, but this is exactly the way I would like to go with my lights.
...add complete instructions, and sign me up.
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Old 10-25-2004, 01:48 PM
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Thanks for the comments. I really appreciate the feedback. My goal is to create a high quality, comprehensive setup. I'm concerned I may be trying to fill a void that does not exist. However, I honestly feel even stock headlights would benefit from such a kit.

The primary issue is price vs. quality. Given no price constraints, I'd love to use Teflon insulated wiring. However, Teflon insulated wire is $1.25-1.50 per FOOT. If you assume 4 foot harnesses to each headlight and 3 wires per headlight, each kit must have 24 feet of 12 gauge, Teflon wire. That cost alone is $30-36.

There is also consideration regarding relays. PCB mounted relays are $1.50 each. Socket-mounted relays are $3 each. Replacable relays are certainly preferred, though.

Ultimate goal is a complete kit for less than the cost to DIY. I'm definitely not in this for the profit.

BTW, the weight reference was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, but there is no smiley for it. I used the wink smiley.
back with more later,
jurgen
Old 10-27-2004, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by turbo6bar


The primary issue is price vs. quality. Given no price constraints, I'd love to use Teflon insulated wiring. However, Teflon insulated wire is $1.25-1.50 per FOOT. If you assume 4 foot harnesses to each headlight and 3 wires per headlight, each kit must have 24 feet of 12 gauge, Teflon wire. That cost alone is $30-36.

There is also consideration regarding relays. PCB mounted relays are $1.50 each. Socket-mounted relays are $3 each. Replacable relays are certainly preferred, though.

I drive a Porsche. I willingly pay for the best quality. I wouldn't hesitate to buy your kit using unobtainium wiring for $100 vs. using temp-questionable wiring for $50. Same goes for relays. We are talking pennies in the big picture.

Price it a la carte - cover all bases.
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Old 10-27-2004, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Early_S_Man

I feel Type E Teflon 12 ga wire would be better than the marine wire.
Is that wire small strands and tined ?
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Old 10-27-2004, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Early_S_Man


The Sucro kit is intended only for 1974 and later cars ... not 1964 - 73 cars ... so a bit of technical research or assistance is required ALREADY for owners of early cars! My suggestion is always that a 'kit' isn't needed at all! The pre-74 wiring diagrams are a lot more logical, intuitive, and easier to deal with, too!
I guess I wasn't paying any attention when I bought mine. I haven't tried to install it yet. Is there any value of the thing on an early 911? Can it be adapted or is there a better way to do this in my case?

Thanks.
Old 10-27-2004, 09:58 AM
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Bump. Sorry, but I could use some help on this one.
Old 10-28-2004, 08:05 AM
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Like to help but not sure milt. The sucro kit works great
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Old 10-28-2004, 08:22 AM
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Milt,

I think the kit will work fine ... you will just have to spend a bit more time finding the Yellow and White wires at the fuse blocks to pick off the drive signals for the relays. Since early fuse blocks are vertical rather than horizontal ... the Sucro instructions may not make much sense.

The idea for utilizing the signals is the same regardless of what year the car is.

You will have to use your own creativity as to where you mount the relays.

Ron,

Mil spec Type E Teflon wire is fine-stranded and the individual strands are silver-plated.
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Old 10-28-2004, 10:06 AM
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not 3 wire

Why are you using 3 wires in your harness?
Just use 2 for your runs and make the grd wire as short as possible. Like to the body bolt inside the buckets.
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Old 10-28-2004, 10:50 AM
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Re: not 3 wire

Quote:
Originally posted by derkpitt
Why are you using 3 wires in your harness?
Just use 2 for your runs and make the grd wire as short as possible. Like to the body bolt inside the buckets.
I went back and re-read the posts rather quickly and I didn't see what this refers to. High and low beams, maybe?

Warren, as usual, thanks. I'll figure it out.
Old 10-28-2004, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
I guess I wasn't paying any attention when I bought mine. I haven't tried to install it yet. Is there any value of the thing on an early 911? Can it be adapted or is there a better way to do this in my case?
Quote:
If you assume 4 foot harnesses to each headlight and 3 wires per headlight, each kit must have 24 feet of 12 gauge, Teflon wire.
One wire to the low beam.
One wire to the high beam.
And one for the ground wire.
1+1+1=3

I make this very quickly, it mitt help.
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Old 10-29-2004, 03:04 AM
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turbo6 - did you ever put together a kit?
Old 11-06-2004, 08:23 AM
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