Spark plug smashed severe..What came likely through/contact? How much damage?

[masraum]

Hahah, had a gumbo cookoff today at work, unfortunately no wine to go with it. Have some for me.

Have a great weekend everybody.

[H.G.P.]

Originally posted by cmcfaul
Happened to me once. I over reved the engine by missing a shift (redline in third to second instead of fourth). The valve hit the piston and dropped into the cylinder.

The good news is that EBSracing.com offers JE pistons at a couple compression rations that are great. I put new Mahle NIckasil cylinders and 9.5 compression ration JE pistons in and the car is extremely fast and reliable.

good luck

Chris
73 911 E

Thank you for the link Chris! I see they carry various items for 2.0 E. Thanks.

[H.G.P.]

I'm now concerned: Here is just the first visual damage:





With the upper valve cover removed, the rocker at #2 broke in half, part of it was laying down at the bottom of the cover upon removal!

Furthermore, probably much worse, upon viewing down the #2 spark plug hole, I can see what looks like mangled metal down within.

What do I do next please?

Thank you.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

1/Remove engine from car. 2/Disassemble engine as necessary. 3/Correct damage.

Stephan

[H.G.P.]

1. Engine is out of car.

2. What exactly needs to be disassembled in this specific case? (i.e how far a teardown?)

3. Can't correct damaged 1969E rocker arm (NLA in my home catalogs). Can this NLA rocker arm part be repaired welded by speciialty shop? Highly doubtful as a stress part.

[masraum]

You need to get things far enough apart to be able to remove head, piston and cylinder if you have to. You need to remove most of that side of the assembly, cam carrier and head at minimum to see what the damage in the cylinder is.

[H.G.P.]

Originally posted by masraum
You need to get things far enough apart to be able to remove head, piston and cylinder if you have to. You need to remove most of that side of the assembly, cam carrier and head at minimum to see what the damage in the cylinder is.

I'm wondering before just removing things at random what that all involves. I guess I'll just start removing things that involves the upper left by that cylinder.

A hope is this: Pelican part: Rocker Arm, 12 required, 911 (1965-89)
H-105-043-00 93010504300 $43.60

Does anyone know whether I must get 12 new rockers, is the rocker sold here compatable with the remaining 11 in the car now?

[Randy Webb]

Be sure there are not any metal bits in the oil pasages.

If you are taking it down n one side you may as well do the other and get a nice new valve job. Any idea on how your rings were before this? You are gonna essentially do a top end so you might as well actually do a top end refresh. Good luck.

[Tim Walsh]

I had to replace 1 rocker arm on my T/E and that rocker arm is exactly what you need.

In general broken rocker arms a GOOD thing. It means that the rocker broke and the valve might be ok. Looks like in this case that's not it.

It looks like it's still mechanicaly injected. I would start by pulling everything off the top of the motor, MFI pump, stacks, T-bodies, Alternator. And make sure you label everything and/or take lots of pictures.
After everything's off the top of the motor I would pull at least the 1-2-3 bank of tinware and it's HE. Then you can pull the chain case cover, pull the cam hardware, slip off the chain and then the only thing holding that side together is 12 head nuts and 5 nuts for the chain case.

[H.G.P.]

Originally posted by Randy Webb
Be sure there are not any metal bits in the oil pasages.

If you are taking it down n one side you may as well do the other and get a nice new valve job. Any idea on how your rings were before this? You are gonna essentially do a top end so you might as well actually do a top end refresh. Good luck.

OK thanks Randy. I have no clue as to the rings, the car was running strong before this event. (It happened at a start up in a parking lot).

Thanks

(edit note: Does anyone know whether I will have to remove the flywheel (again) for this project? I did, what appears a good job in installing the flywheel last year, and I'd like to avoid removing it again!)

[H.G.P.]

Originally posted by Tim Walsh
I had to replace 1 rocker arm on my T/E and that rocker arm is exactly what you need.

In general broken rocker arms a GOOD thing. It means that the rocker broke and the valve might be ok. Looks like in this case that's not it.

It looks like it's still mechanicaly injected. I would start by pulling everything off the top of the motor, MFI pump, stacks, T-bodies, Alternator. And make sure you label everything and/or take lots of pictures.
After everything's off the top of the motor I would pull at least the 1-2-3 bank of tinware and it's HE. Then you can pull the chain case cover, pull the cam hardware, slip off the chain and then the only thing holding that side together is 12 head nuts and 5 nuts for the chain case.

Yes, I'm labeling everything. UPDATE: I can now see down through all the intake "ports". I guess I'm seeing the back of the exhaust valves?? Most of them look like they have carbon build up, and the suspect #2 cylinder one looks like black soot. Tomorrow the shroud comes off.

Note: What impact later might removing the chain cause? Does removing the chain mean I'll have to re-do the timing?

[rick-l]

I remember somebody on this forum wrote a book or something about rebuilding these things.

[H.G.P.]

Originally posted by rick-l
I remember somebody on this forum wrote a book or something about rebuilding these things.

I have the 101 book, but this event happened just a few days ago, so I've been doing mostly diagnosis before ordering the other Wayne's Rebuild one. I have been looking through the Pelican rebuild wizard.

[911pcars]

I wonder what are the chances your engine has the original chain tensioners and chain ramps? They were probably replaced long ago unless yours is a low mileage example.

One of the above two is usually the reason a rocker arm breaks, so check those out. If you have the early rubber chain ramps, replace them with the plastic versions. If your tensioner collapsed, replace both sides.

Typically, the rocker arm takes the brunt of the force instead of a piston or valve. In your case, the valve head could have also broken off but maybe not. You can tell when you remove the cylinder head. It won't be pretty.

You can replace just the broken rocker (and other broken parts).

Sounds like you're a newby with this engine. If you tackle repairs yourself, read everything you can and return here often to fill in the blanks.

A high mileage engine begs the question whether you should rebuild or replace, but that's another topic for another related thread.

Best wishes,
Sherwood

[69911e]

Don't worry about finding the right parts to rebuild the motor, everthing is easy to find. I have a set of heads off my 69E if you do need one (or more).

[H.G.P.]

Originally posted by 911pcars
I wonder what are the chances your engine has the original chain tensioners and chain ramps? They were probably replaced long ago unless yours is a low mileage example.

One of the above two is usually the reason a rocker arm breaks, so check those out. If you have the early rubber chain ramps, replace them with the plastic versions. If your tensioner collapsed, replace both sides.

Typically, the rocker arm takes the brunt of the force instead of a piston or valve. In your case, the valve head could have also broken off but maybe not. You can tell when you remove the cylinder head. It won't be pretty.

You can replace just the broken rocker (and other broken parts).

Sounds like you're a newby with this engine. If you tackle repairs yourself, read everything you can and return here often to fill in the blanks.

A high mileage engine begs the question whether you should rebuild or replace, but that's another topic for another related thread.

Best wishes,
Sherwood

Yes, very much a "newby" with the engine, although I did replace the flywheel last year. I'll look in Projects 101 for how to examine chains.

Much off this car appears to be original, like the flywheel that was removed last year, and the Marchal alternator, etc,. The valve covers I was told are original, as what looks like the chain covers.

I'm a lefty, so I do best by actual hands on "doing" experience. I'm following this board, Projects 101 teardown chapter, and Haynes right now.

The negative, is when peering down the the #2 spark plug hole with the plug renoved, looks ugly (looks like whatever is down there has been pounded.)

Thanks.

[Jay Auskin]

How far do you have to tear it down...I'd say all the way!. That's what I saw when I removed my valve cover two years ago. There was a nice big hole in the piston when I looked thru the spark plug hole.

Remove the bottom sump screen on your engine. If tiny little bits of metal drop out (it will be alot if the piston has a hole punched in it), you'll know an entire rebuild is required. If there isn't a hole punched in the piston, then maybe you can keep the "short block", and replace as needed.

[H.G.P.]

Here's the chain with the cover off removed tonight, Sherwood:



Is it OK?


Here's how far I am, shroud off, do not know what bolts to tackle first here? Does the heat exchanger come off now? (thanks Jay for the oil screen check tip)





(Yes, everything, everything is very filthy..........)

[HarryD]

Originally posted by Jay Auskalnis
How far do you have to tear it down...I'd say all the way!. That's what I saw when I removed my valve cover two years ago. There was a nice big hole in the piston when I looked thru the spark plug hole.

Remove the bottom sump screen on your engine. If tiny little bits of metal drop out (it will be alot if the piston has a hole punched in it), you'll know an entire rebuild is required. If there isn't a hole punched in the piston, then maybe you can keep the "short block", and replace as needed.

Jay,

Careful now. Us guys with Magnesium cases have to be a little careful about cracking a case. Since when you do, you have just about guaranteed that you will need to have the case shaved and line bored to get everything square again due to the case warping from accumulated stress relief.

In his case, he may need to due to the schrapnel in the case but once he looks at the comubustion side of the valves and the piston tops he will know if he needs to go further. If there is schrapnel, I would do the whole nine yards or shop for a 3.0/3.2. Otherwise, a top end valve job, repalce the tensioners and ramps, and leave it at that.

Once he knows a bit more, consuullting with Grady or JW would also be prudent.

[Jay Auskin]

I think we're in agreement Harry. If no schrapnel...then don't split the case halves if all else looks ok. I know alot of guys say the rebuild isn't too much more work to split the case, but I think it adds alot more time...it added alot of time for me anyhow.

Also, if you do see bits-o-piston, it might be a good idea to get your oil cooler ultrasonically cleaned. Pacific Oil Cooler did a stellar job for me!