Help - looking to buy and need guidance

[fastlanecutie]

Hello all! I have been in the market for my first porsche for about a month now. I am looking for a 911, mid 76 through mid 80's (year model) and have mostly been going just by the 'look' of the vehicle. Well, i've been burned on a bmw going on just looks before, hmmm - not to mention my ex boyfriend (joke). Seriously though, i need to know please if there are any particular year models i need to be wary of, any known particular problems at a certain mileage, major problems known with particular parts, etc. Also, if you have had exceptional experience or luck with one in particular, i'd love to know about it. All information would be greatly appreciated!!! You can e-mail me at lilmistaken@yahoo.com or post here. I have a couple right now that i have kind of narrowed it down to, and although i am afraid one will be gone by the time i decide, i also don't want to jump in prematurely and then have to invest a great deal in it right after i get it, so i am still keeping my eyes open for that ONE that just HAS to be mine! Thanks again!

[MotoSook]

No advice until you post a picture

We have to be sure this isn't one of those "Ihavebigt!ts" handle lure things

[ubiquity0]

I assume the '76 onwards is due to the galvanized bodies that those years enjoyed?

74-77 911 911S 2.7l
78-83 911SC 3.0l
84-89 911 Carrera 3.2l

Generally the later the better. Unless you're price range is limited (under 10k) I would go for the cleanest SC or Carrera you can find.

[RickM]

This question has been asked before. However, a search might be lengthy as there's probably alot to weed through. I'd say go for the newest car in the best condition. That also means having a Pre Purchase Inspection (PPI) by a trusted independent PORSCHE tech before you buy any car. Have them go over the mechanics and body of the car. Carfax will potentially add a bit more info into your reasearch. Previous owner or dealer records are great to have as well.

[Kemo]

fastlanecutie,

First of all, greetings from Dallas, I lived North of Houston for many years. Second of all, welcome to the board!

Now, down to buisness...

for the years you described, I would say that an 82-83 SC would be a great buy if you could find one that was well maintained. So, try to find one with a documented maintenance history. Also, in my mind, the less number of owners the better.

I hear stories of valve guides on 84-85 models and i hear that the 74-77 have all kinds of problems relating to overheating and head studs.

However, a well documented and well maintained car of any year would be good, its just that the 78-83 SCs seem to be in that "bulletproof" category. In any event, if i had to do it all over again, i would have taken more time and shopped around ALOT more. i jumped on the first deal that came my way. I got a decent car, but I could have gotten a much better one that needed alot less work to make it a driver. I guess im trying to advise you "not to get in a hurry". Just like dating, be very careful of that overwhelming attraction, you may end up with a huge project Did I mention that a paintjob can cost about 6-8K?

RickM beat me to it, but you will hear this OVER AND OVER AGAIN, get a PPI (pre-purchase inspection)

Above all, have fun. And when you get your car, post a buncha pictures of it. Get involved with the local Houston Pelican board members, i hear they are alright.

[Superman]

Welcome. Ignore the crass nerds. Like Souk, for example. Hi Souk.

Yep, the later the better. Late SC's are excellent cars (I am obviously biased). They have the important chain wheel carrier upgrade. But early SC's have that robust intake system with larger intake ports, and used late SC (9.3:1) P&C's are dime-a-dozen. Apparently the placement of these higher compression pistons into an early (78-79) SC makes for an exciting power band.

Perhaps the most important rule to obey however, is to buy this car with your mind and not your heart. Get a PPI (professional pre purchase inspection). I guess that would be PPPI, technically. Insist on a compression check and an inspection of all 24 head stud nuts. Broken head studs are common.

[RickM]

Originally posted by Kemo


I hear stories of valve guides on 84-85 models

To expand a bit....

I believe the Valve Guide issue is a possibilty on all Carreras (84-89). General concensus is that if it hasn't happened by 60K-80K miles then you're probably in the clear.

That said, all years that are in your search range have their unique issues...including SCs.

Again, I'd suggest the newest car in the best condition, unless there's some particular feature(s) in a model rangeyou're looking for.

[Grady Clay]

Fastlanecutie,

What Souk is referring to is that occasionally someone trolls for e-mail addresses. This Forum is fairly protective. Welcome.

That said; you need to farther define what you want and give some idea of your budget and willingness to purchase a 911 that is less than new. You won’t find a 911 in the ’76 to ’80 that is absolutely like new unless you pay an outrageous price. Consequently, you need to factor in a very through Pre Purchase Inspection (PPI), servicing/repairing/updating necessary issues, and an ongoing maintenance/repair program. The general recommendation is to buy the latest and best condition 911 within your budget.

Some background:
The ’76-’77 911s are 2.7 liters and are similar from ’74 thru ’77. There are pros and cons, one issue is the condition of the engine (how recent overhaul or not.)
The ’78-’80 are relatively the same ’78 thru ’83 911SC with 3.0 liter engines.
Of course with any used car there are potential issues; this is where a comprehensive PPI is exceedingly important. The basic questions you want answered are:
Has it been crashed? If so, how badly and what was the quality of the repair?
Is there significant rust or corrosion of the chassis or parts?
What is the condition & functioning of the engine and transmission?
How is the condition of the running gear; shocks, bearings, brakes, tires, etc?
Is the general condition acceptable? Paint, interior, accessories?

This Forum is full of Do-It-Yourself (DIY) 911 owners.
You can get great advice here.

Best,
Grady

[fastlanecutie]

Aww ya'll are so sweet! Thanks so very much for the replies and know that they really do help. I will not skip the ppi and i am actually looking online right now to find people in the areas that i am looking to buy. Normally i am a jump in and let's get it done type of girl, but like i said, i had a beemer that burned me and a 91 jag, which i still own and that although i love, has caused it's share of $$$-headaches; both of which i wish i would have researched more, but it was love at first sight. So far on the porsche the general consenus from here, and other places where i have read, seems to be the sc in the year-ranges 78 through 83. As soon as I purchase i will definitely post pictures. Again, thanks SO much and anymore advice until time of purchase (AND after!!!) is sincerely/greatly appreciated! BTW, Souk: they are not huge, nor are they small. They have been described as perfect )

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally posted by RickM
To expand a bit....

I believe the Valve Guide issue is a possibilty on all Carreras (84-89). General concensus is that if it hasn't happened by 60K-80K miles then you're probably in the clear.

That said, all years that are in your search range have their unique issues...including SCs.

Again, I'd suggest the newest car in the best condition, unless there's some particular feature(s) in a model rangeyou're looking for.

RE: Valve guides, that's absolutely correct. My 84 has 237K miles on it and burns a quart every 800 to 1000, motor has never been opened.

I'm sure this will cause some flap, but I'd stay away from SCs, unless you like tempermental fuel injection.

You can find good solid 84-85 Carrera's in the $13 range these days.

Good luck with your search!

[MotoSook]

Originally posted by fastlanecutie
BTW, Souk: they are not huge, nor are they small. They have been described as perfect )

You have found a new home. A sense of humor is most important! Grady is correct, we don't like trolls Even crass nerds like me don't like them much (Hi Jim Come visit us at GruppeB)

You have done the right thing by posting here first.

[nostatic]

Didn't the Crass Nerds play Lollapalooza this year?

[Jim Richards]

Buy a 76-77 with fairly recent rebuilt engine.

[cstreit]

...but no PURPLE for gods sake! (Hi Jim)

[Jim Richards]

[MotoSook]

OK...here's my take on buying a 911.

First post what you can spend, intended use of the car and how much work you can do yourself.

After spending time with my two somewhat different 911's and seeing or working on a bunch others, I would say to look for a low mileage ‘87-‘89 Carrera (the 3.2 1989, not the C2).

I know there are going to be a bunch of owners ready to jump on me for the above comment, but let’s face it. The 3.6’s are still up there in price, and there are few pre-3.2 liter cars out there that have not been molested (good or bad). The early cars are not for everyone and of course you have to worry about rust in the pre-‘76 cars (heck even the post-‘76 cars!).

I hate the thought of propagating the “I love my ‘87+ 3.2 911” mantra, but you have to love the 911 quirkiness to live with a 915 transmission in the pre-‘87 cars. And who would want that funky 901 trans but a hardcore 901 lover who’s not spent much time in a G-50 car or even a good 915 car (go ahead flame away).

(Fast-cutie: I’m talking about the three popular transmission models, 901, 915 and G-50. My girlfriend won’t drive my 915 tranny car, but she likes driving the G-50 tranny car. The G-50 is the easiest to drive of the three in my opinion, and they are available in the 87-89 cars (again, I’m leaving the 3.6 liter engine cars out of this discussion)).

If you are considering the ‘78-‘89 cars, the bodies are essentially identical, so then it comes down to engine and tranny choice (I’m leaving out the early 911’s (pre-‘~73.6) and the mid-year (’~73.7-’77) for now).

The ‘78-‘79 911SC’s have the basic CIS fuel injection system, and the 80-83 911SC’s had the slightly less-basic CIS fuel injection (add O2 sensor and fuel adjustment). Theses cars are basically the same as Grady pointed out. The CIS system is simple, but it has its quirks. Those quirks can be lived with if you understand what they are (minor adjustments here and there). These are fun cars that are very simple. Their 3.0 liter engines are great work horses, with the least of issues when compared to other models (go ahead and flame away guys). They don’t have modern electronic fuel injections like the 84+ cars, but they are simple and reliable. If you are targeting the SC, look for a 78-79 from an engine perspective (yet another topic of many opinions).

The 84-89 cars come with a 3.2 liter engine which has electronic fuel injection. The 3.2 is based on the same engine as the 3.0, but it has issues like weak rod bolts and valve guides that are prone to early wear, to name a couple. The rod bolt issue is not that critical, but the valve guides are! I have such a car that will be seeing a topend rebuild which will include new valve guides. It will not be a very cheap rebuild, and unless you anticipate this before you buy a 3.2, don’t! (or hope the valve guides have already been done, or it’s a very low mileage car…but those very low mileage 3.2’s are high in price)

The more modern fuel injection of the 3.2 liter engine is nice to have, but there are a lot more things to go wrong with them when compared to a CIS engine. When new, the 3.2 was likely a very hassle free engine and they still are. But! These cars are aging and unless the previous owner (PO) has spent the time and money to address all the worn and tired items on that car, YOU will be addressing them. That is not to say that the CIS cars don’t have worn and tired components that need to be addresses, so we make compromises.

It would be a longer discussion (and a complex decision matrix) for me to explain why I still think the ‘87+ cars with their 3.2 liter engine is a good buy, but basically, unless you are an old car nut willing to live with the hassles of owning a finicky classic, buy the 87+ cars. The 87+ car is more modern in operation and feel from the driver’s seat.

For your first 911, I would stay away from the early cars (‘73.6 or older). Those cars deserve their own discussion. A lot of guys have bought an early car as their first 911, and there is nothing wrong with that, but the list of things to look for when shopping for an early car is more complicated. I would also stay away from the 73.7-77 cars, unless you plan to pull the 2.7 liter engine out soon and replace it with a 3.0 or bigger engine. My first 911 was a 2.7 liter car, so I hope I know what I’m talking about. The 73.7-77 cars don’t have the sexy flares of the 78+ cars which started the whole love affair with wide fenders (right guys!) for the general public. The pre-73.7 cars have what we call a long hood, and although they don’t have the fender flares, they are sexy in there own way.

If you go for something older, then we get into the short wheel base cars (pre-69). I don’t think you are headed there, but if you are, start a new thread as they definitely deserve their own discussion. The same can be said about the special cars, like the Turbo-looks, Turbos and RS’s and all the copies out there. I don’t think you want to go there.

If you go for something newer (89+), start a new thread. The 89-94 cars are known in the Porsche circle as the 964 model, the 95-98 cars are the 993 models (last of the air-cooled models), the 99-04 cars are the 996 (water-cooled) models, and we are now in the 997 model era. The prices for these are up there of course…


The prices for a 911SC and a 911 Carrera is in the $8000-$23000 range, with the overlap between the two models in the $13,000-$14,000 range. You know about the PPI, but beware, PPI's will not catch all the things that you will find when you start to live with a 911. If you want to catch the most issues when performing a PPI, hire a guy like Grady and fly him in for inspection. I bet Grady would find three times as many things as two dealer wrenches would

That’s as condensed as I can make it.

[Rot 911]

Damn Souk did she send you some pictures you are keeping from us?

[RickM]

Souk, I mostly with ya until here:

"The more modern fuel injection of the 3.2 liter engine is nice to have, but there are a lot more things to go wrong with them when compared to a CIS engine."

[white87911]

Originally posted by fastlanecutie
BTW, Souk: they are not huge, nor are they small. They have been described as perfect )

Well, soonner or later you will come over to the off topic board and we can discuss this at great lengths (no pun intended)

Seriously, if you find a car that you are interest, give us as much info as you can and we will help you the best we can.

Good Luck

Erik

[MotoSook]

I got bore of writing stupid (STUPID!) audit reports and needed to do something else, besides, I was thinking she might send me a picture (cutie: send it to crassnerd@perfect.com let the e-mail trolls have fun with that address!)


Rick, there are more things to go wrong with a 3.2 than the 3.0 induction/engine management, right? But then I've stripped my CIS of a lot of things