Airbags and full-face helmets

[Porsche virgin]

In the most recent Sports Car magazine (from the SCCA), there is a Participation Bulletin:

PARTICIPATION BULLETIN
DATE: November 16, 2004
FROM: National Staff
TO: All Participants
SUBJECT: Airbag Advisory
It has been brought to the attention of SCCA Technical Services that the use of full-face or closed-face helmets while driving vehicles with active airbag restraint systems may result in injuries in the event of a crash that deploys the airbag. Because of the location of the steering wheel relative to a driver's position, the airbag axis is on a level with the driver's chin. In a crash with airbag deployment, contact with the chin area of a full-face helmet can be so powerful "that the risk of fractures to the jaw cannot be ruled out" (Hubert Gramling, FIA Institute, FT3/AF, 18.5.1999). This applies to vehicle that may be used in Solo, RallyCross, High Performance Car Control Clinics, etc. Therefore, it is highly recommended that full-face helmets not be used in vehicles with functional airbag systems. Potentially more restrictive language is currently being considered for 2005, which could appear in an early 2005 issue of Fastrack. If you have any questions, please contact the SCCA at (800) 770-2055.

[jluetjen]

And having that same airbag impact on an unprotected face is less likely to cause damage how???

PS: I know something about this subject since I had the airbags deploy in a street car a couple of years ago -- Amazing pieces of technology! I had no sense that the airbag deployed except that one moment it wasn't there and the next it was laying across the steering wheel and my shirt sleeves and wrists were singed and scratched.

[Rot 911]

Seems to be lots of speculation and little evidence in that article. Not saying it is not true, but where are the facts to base their claim?

[Emission]

Virgin,

Thanks for posting this... the quote:

"...that the risk of fractures to the jaw cannot be ruled out."

You can also say "...death from the use of seat belts cannot be ruled out" as a few (few) people have died from minor accidents when they are trapped in a fire!

This is one of those cases where the facts are turned around to make the safety device look bad - like a glass is half-empty vs. half-full view.

I will continue to wear a full-face helmet, and a seatbelt. Both have proven that in 99% of the cases to protect more than they hurt. I'll take the 1% risk that I will be trapped in a fire, or my jaw will be broken.

[thrown_hammer]

I am going to saw off the full face portion of my helmet.....You can't be too safe.

[Emission]

Originally posted by thrown_hammer
I am going to saw off the full face portion of my helmet.....You can't be too safe.

You know what... that will save WEIGHT too!

[Jeff Higgins]

I see where this is going. Next will be little airbags in the bottom front of full face helmets to protect you from the big airbag in the steering column. Of course those would squeeze your head so hard inside the helmet that your eyeball would squirt out onto the windshield, so you would need another airbag up inside the helmet to keep them in. And so on and so forth.

[MotoSook]

Originally posted by thrown_hammer
I am going to saw off the full face portion of my helmet.....You can't be too safe.

LOL!!!!! Thanks Shawn.

[banjomike]

Originally posted by Kurt V
Seems to be lots of speculation and little evidence in that article. Not saying it is not true, but where are the facts to base their claim?

The article sites "Hubert Gramling, FIA Institute, FT3/AF, 18.5.1999" as the source of their information. If you want the "facts" track that down.

The language that makes the letter seem speculative is a classic example of technical writing. The author has to walk a fine line between saying too much and drawing the ire of the helmet company lawyers, and saying too little and being sued by an injured racer.

[ChrisBennet]

A couple of data points:

1) Several years ago a DE participant at an event I was attending drove/slid his 993 into the tires nose first. His airbags went off propelling the attached stopwatch into the chin portion of his full face helmet. Helmet stayed on. Stopwatch was in little bits.

2) I was at a DE event at Watkins Glen when a driver of a 993 went off at the Bus Stop causing the air bags to deploy. As I recall, both of the driver's and the passenger's helmets came off. One helmet ended up in the woods. There was speculation that day that they had possibly loosened their helmet straps but I don't think that was the case.

-Chris

[jluetjen]

OK Guys.

You can find the actual SCCA advisory to Solo Competitors in the center of page 16 of the January 2005 Fast Track For anyone not familiar with the SCCA, "Fast Track" is where they publish any updates or changes to the rules since the bound copy went to print around the new year, as well as notes from the different board and committee meetings and any appeals and the result (one of my favorite parts!).

I just did a search of the FIA site for "FT3/AF, 18.5.1999" and came up with Zilch. So then I did a search for just "FT3/AF" and that still turned up nothing. Now the "18.5.1999" is obviously the date of the release which is 18-May-1999 so this release can hardly be "News".

Doing a search on "airbag" returns zilch and doing a search on "Helmet" came up with the results listed. Glancing through the helmet regulations I didn't see anything about use with airbags.

I also checked the FIA Institute and they don't seem to mention anything and it doesn't even seem to be one of the things which they were studying.

Did the SCCA run afoul of an urban myth?

PS: I've sent a note to the SCCA Solo Technical Coordinator asking for more information.

[jluetjen]

Doug Gill just responded to me and here's his message.

Hi, John,

The paper is actually the property of DaimlerChrysler since they funded the study. Most of this info is in an SAE paper.

2000-01-3543

Development of an Airbag System for FIA Formula One and Comparison to the HANS

Head and Neck Support

Hubert Gramling

DaimlerChrysler

Robert Hubbard

Michigan State University

I have been in contact with several people heavily involved in motorsports safety - some just last weekend at the PRI trade show. I understand there are going to be some preliminary tests done very soon with helmet usage during an airbag deployment. SCCA Tech Services will also be consulting with safety experts and compiling statistics regarding this issue. I have learned that there are also other concerns that the experts have.

SCCA Tech Services will be making a complete report at a later date.

Thanks for your support of our club.


- Doug

Doug Gill
SCCA Solo Technical Manager
1-800-770-2055
dgill@scca.com or
solotech@scca.com

[jluetjen]

OK;
Here's some more data from "GrandPrix.com"

The HANS Head and Neck Support system is fast becoming a standard piece of safety equipment, and the Daimler-Chrysler paper (2001-01-3541) describes some of the extensive test work carried out on it to determine its sensitivity to a number of test conditions, in order to prove its robustness. The effect of neck length, and shoulder belt slack and geometry were assessed, and the critical injury criteria shown to be sensitive to them. However, HANS provides a substantial reduction in injury potential compared to the baseline tests without HANS. 30? angled front impacts and side and rear impacts were run and showed that HANS did not increase injury potential in any of these cases, and may even provide increased neck protection in severe rear impacts.

[Porsche virgin]

jluetjen, You are the reseach man! Talk about lots of info. If I need to dig up info on my wife, I'm calling you.

My feeling is that the SCCA is just trying to completely insulate itself from any potential lawsuit. This is the same organization that killed its Pro Rally races (Grassroots, Dec. '04) because insurance was too expensive.

[jluetjen]

This is the same organization that killed its Pro Rally races (Grassroots, Dec. '04) because insurance was too expensive.

Well not exactly.
1) Pro-Rally was sold off, not killed. Within the context of divesting it to a schedule, it looks like the SCCA has been doing what it can to keep the series alive, just not under SCCA Sanction.

2) It's not just that insurance was too expensive, but the number of people who participated in Rallys was far fewer then who participated in Solo or Club or Pro racing, but the insurance costs were amongst the highest in the club. So basically the rest of the groups were subsidising Rally. Any organization in the same situation needs to understand if that should be maintained for long. In this case they decided that it was better to end the relationship sooner rather then later.