So many failed PPI's...what do I need to change in my search?

[plymouthcolt]

Since the summer I have spent over $663 on three PPI's.

Any suggestions on what I should change so I stop dumping money into a hole? I know the PPI's have saved me from buying a basket case, but I'm trying to go about it in a smarter method.

Should I only look for cars with a history going back several owners or five years? The three I looked at had paperwork from only the current owner.

Should I buy only from a true Porsche nut? The three sellers had in common: the 911 was just another sports car and nothing more. All three were moving on to luxury sedans. Nothing wrong with that, but it seems some services were skipped to save money (wheel bearings, valve adjustments, torn cv boots).

Thank you.

Howard

[nostatic]

up your price and look for one from an anal p-car nut.

[juanbenae]

look at PCA websites. not the national site but the regional and zone sites.

[Dan Owens]

Sounds to me like the PPI system is working but then again it depends on your threshold for failure. Wheel bearings and CV boots or valve adjustments won't kill a deal for me. As long as the rest of the car is sound I'd either negotiate the price down to cover the repairs or have the owner repair them and then pay the negotiated price. Your alternative is to find a perfectly maintained car with no repairs required and pay the extra cash accordingly. Those are also DYI projects and a great way to learn if you're mechanically incline.

[imcarthur]

I had a similar experience. 3 failed PPIs, $650 spent & I gave up for a while. Then when I wasn't really looking, I found the car I bought.

So hang in there. You'll find it. Just look at the $s as your first investment in your Porsche.

Ian

[Doug Steinel]

Perhaps you should do a more thorough filtering process when you come upon a car that is a possibility. For example, only go the PPI route if the car is well documented and the owner shows a positive attitude about maintenance.

Also, look at enthusiast fora for a car. The Washington Post has lots of cars, but many are not well maitained. Use the Porsche Cars for Sale on this board (there was a '69 911 for sale in MD this week). Also, the PANO classified and the regional PCA newsletter classified

[KNS]

The perfect car isn't out there. My PPI came up with a few problems that I could live with or fix in the near future. Figure out what you're willing to accept or up your price accordingly. There are always going to be deal breakers and I suppose it would suck if you've run into three in a row. Maybe sit back and give it a break for a while (saving up more purchase money in the meantime).

[David]

Originally posted by imcarthur
I had a similar experience. 3 failed PPIs, $650 spent & I gave up for a while. Then when I wasn't really looking, I found the car I bought.

So hang in there. You'll find it. Just look at the $s as your first investment in your Porsche.

Ian

I looked at one of these failed cars for Ian and it was one of the cleanest Carrera's I've seen. If I remember correctly it had bad leakdown during the PPI. So even if you have high standards on your filtering process, you'll still weed out a few with a good PPI.

Keep up the search, there are good ones out there.

[rich22]

Are you expecting a perfect car? These are the cars owned by fanatics that also think their 3.2 Carrera is worth $22k. Better to buy one in good basic condition for $16k and put $2k of repairs into it.

[Joehand1]

With a neglected car, the number is more like $4000 to get EVERYTHING back to perfect condition for a 3.2.

I would buy that perfect 22K car from the p-nut.

[plymouthcolt]

Thanks guys. It just kills me to get so close sometimes. The night before I am already imagining driving the car home.

I have Waynes book and will do most of the maintenance myself. What killed the deals for me were leakdowns, transmissions with bad syncros (among other problems), and massive oil leaks.

The last two PPI's were long distance so I could haved saved money by catching it with a test drive/walkaround.

From now on I will only PPI cars I see in person beforehand. I'll reserve the long distance PPI in cases were a respected pelican member is the seller.

If I was looking for a 1988 for 15k, I know I am going to run into problems. I figured for an '88 for 19k should be a better sorted car.

[tsuter]

Originally posted by plymouthcolt

If I was looking for a 1988 for 15k, I know I am going to run into problems. I figured for an '88 for 19k should be a better sorted car.

I think that's your problem. Most guys with 78-83 SCs "think" their garage queens are worth more than that. Especially if they've cleaned the wheel wells, powder painted the fan and polished the Fuchs and have less than three oil leaks.

[Par911]

Howard, I'm in G'burg too. If you would like, you can check out my '79 911SC. I flew out to CO, bought it without a PPI, and drove it all the way back with no problems. Since then I have been driving it daily for the past year and a half.
Let me know.

[hkspwrsche]

Well..you can get a solid SC for around 10k and save your money for a problem or put the money down on a 993... or spend the little extra on the the perfect carrera.... but, eventually they will all need something....it's only money..and your Porsche will get it eventually..There should be a ton of cars in the potomac region pca area.. the site nearest you to check out would be pcapotomac.org.....may not have tons in the listings but, lots in the area..
Good luck

[Noel]

What is your criteria for a car (Budget, Model, etc)? If you are expecting to find a SC for $10K for example that doesn't need a bunch of work, then you are dreaming. Also East Coast car are more expensive but also seem to have less miles and are generally in better shape since they are not driven as much. IMHO

When I bought mine, I talked to the owners of about 15-20 cars, looked at two, one failed PPI and the other I bought. It took me about a year, but I was looking for the "Right" car.

Hang in there. You may have spent >$600, but you probably saved even more than if you ended up with a car with major issues.

[geof33]

Originally posted by plymouthcolt
Thanks guys. It just kills me to get so close sometimes. The night before I am already imagining driving the car home.

I have Waynes book and will do most of the maintenance myself. What killed the deals for me were leakdowns, transmissions with bad syncros (among other problems), and massive oil leaks.

The last two PPI's were long distance so I could haved saved money by catching it with a test drive/walkaround.

From now on I will only PPI cars I see in person beforehand. I'll reserve the long distance PPI in cases were a respected pelican member is the seller.

If I was looking for a 1988 for 15k, I know I am going to run into problems. I figured for an '88 for 19k should be a better sorted car.

Plan on 20... for a well sorted car. Things to remember, the 915 is funky and notchy (not as bad with the g-50). Though some think the syncros are bad more often a clutch adjust is all that is nec.

With leakdowns etc... I'd be more concerned with compresion readings. Define MASSIVE oil leaks? Easy fix with new valve gaskets or are we talking case/seals?

The original oil lines (the small feeder to the cams) are most likley going to be leaky. They are old.

What is your failure threshold??? Also, get picks of the cars before doing the PPI... Search locally. Most areas have a Porsche mech within 100-200 miles. Easily drivable....

Some thoughts...

[CarreraS2]

Are you looking at the cars first?

I've never had a car fail a PPI (I usually don't even get them done unless the car involves spending some real $$, and even then I've done it without any problems). But I don't buy cars with no records, no history, a bunch of serial owners, a history of going through a bunch of car auctions, etc.

When I go to look at a car, I analyze everything. Starting with the owner, his house, even his shoes, then moving to his sales speech. BS is usually obvious.

Moving to the car, it's usually pretty easy. There are cars that have been properly cared for and cars that have not. There are honest, solid cars (for 911s these days, that is probably around 10% of the population), and there's everything else that I wouldn't even consider.

It's usually easy to tell. What do I look for? In 2 words: Deferred maintenance. If the owner has been deferring repairs and maintenance, it's not the type of car I want to buy or the type of owner I want to buy from. It's a smoke that usually signifies a fire you can't see.

Oil leaks are a good start. I ask that first on the phone. If the car has no leaks, that's a very good sign - the sign of an owner that takes care of problems when they pop up. If a 15-20 year old 911 has a nice, dry, reasonably clean underside of the engine, that is a very good sign that it has been well maintained in its life.

Records are another thing. I don't buy any significant dollar car without records. Not so much for the records per se, but because what the records tell me about the owner. That he cares about the car enough to 1) get it serviced, and 2) keep the records.

A car with no records and oily underneath, for example, is a non-starter. I'd never waste PPI $$ on that. You say that you've had failed PPI's for "massive oil leaks," why are you throwing PPI money at cars with massive oil leaks?!?

By the time I spring for a PPI, I've examined the car pretty closely. The only thing I'm really looking for in the PPI are things like broken head studs, and leakdown/compression numbers.

Anyways, that's how I've done it.

[VaSteve]

Originally posted by Par911
Howard, I'm in G'burg too. If you would like, you can check out my '79 911SC. I flew out to CO, bought it without a PPI, and drove it all the way back with no problems. Since then I have been driving it daily for the past year and a half.
Let me know.

But ask him how much $ he's put into it

Seriously though, buy a car with a good engine and body that's reasonably well cared for if your budget can't afford someone's garage queen. The next three best things you can buy:

1. Wayne's book.
2. A set of tools.
3. A membership to www.dorkiphus.com. We are having a discount sale on memberships . Normally $150. But I will give you $10% off this week. There are a bunch of us nuts in your area...when we have nothing of our own to work on, we work on each other's car. Last week we dropped my engine.

The owner of mine wanted $14000 (99K, 83 SC) and it needed front brake bearing, new heater hoses, hood shocks and a bunch of cosmetic stuff I still haven't gotten to.

Passed the PPI OK, but since then I have been catching up on all the maintenance since it only saw ~15K miles from 1993-2003. I have also had to put in a new igintion system since the only-5-years old Permatune died 5 months after I bought the car.

Come join in person on dorkiphus.com, we'll school you on what to look for.

[yasir]

Here's how i would approach the PPI thing,
Ask the Owner :
1)- About any cosmetic/mechanicals flaws & have him send you the picts esp interior one.
2)- Ask him about the maintanence & oil changes etc etc
3)- Ask him how long has he owned the car,the longer he has owned it the more he would know about the car
Before you do a PPI :
4)- Have some one from the board go and look at the car for you.I recently looked at a C2 cab for a pelican member from CA and saved him quite a bit of money by advising him against the PPI,would have been waste of time/money ( car was not correctly described to him )
Moving on to PPI :
5)- Have the dealer look at the car in general first,like the exterior for stone chips,mismatch panels/over sprays,worn out seats & worn out handbrake handle and stuff like that.I would also have the mechanic comment on the tires,engine condition and any obvious leaks.This should not cost you more then $150.Once the car has cleared all these requirements only then proceed to the Compression/leakdown testing,which i am sure will set you back atleast $400 ).
Having said all that always remember " a low mileage car doesn't always means it's in a mint condition "
Any way if you need any help in or around Louisville,KY area i'll be more then happy to look at the car for you.Btw remember we are talking about 10-20 year old cars and no matter how well they have been taken care of they still would have some issues,cosmetic/mechanical,that you would need to address sooner or later.

[Par911]

Originally posted by VaSteve
But ask him how much $ he's put into it

Seriously though, buy a car with a good engine and body that's reasonably well cared for if your budget can't afford someone's garage queen. The next three best things you can buy:

1. Wayne's book.
2. A set of tools.
3. A membership to www.dorkiphus.com. We are having a discount sale on memberships . Normally $150. But I will give you $10% off this week. There are a bunch of us nuts in your area...when we have nothing of our own to work on, we work on each other's car. Last week we dropped my engine.

The owner of mine wanted $14000 (99K, 83 SC) and it needed front brake bearing, new heater hoses, hood shocks and a bunch of cosmetic stuff I still haven't gotten to.

Passed the PPI OK, but since then I have been catching up on all the maintenance since it only saw ~15K miles from 1993-2003. I have also had to put in a new igintion system since the only-5-years old Permatune died 5 months after I bought the car.

Come join in person on dorkiphus.com, we'll school you on what to look for.

Don't hate because even with how much $$ I have put into it, I am still way below what you paid for your targa . I think Howard is already a Dorkiphus member.
Steve, I drove my 911 today, did you drive yours?