1982---911SC Targa CIS,frequency Valve chech

[Jim Williams]

Vic,

I am not following your post... ",But in yours the T12-2 between the Frequency Valve and the Pin 87b OXS relay Black/ red wire that then again goes to Pin #8 Acc. Enrichment Control,Black /red wire." This is not a complete sentence. I don't understand what you're saying here. The diagram on my web page shows the correction.

"Loren sugested that the OXS Control Unit K-Jetronics is defective. He sugested that I should have ground on Pin 5 and Pin15 from the Lambda Unit. I have a 1.5mm brown wire that goes to Pin 2 at the T12 connector and instead of ground I have 8.0 to 9.0 volts engine running. I have groun from Lambda Unit Pin 16 . I have another T12-2 in the Factory Diagrans that is a black/red wire that runs from Pin 8 Acceleration Enrich. Unit to Pin 87b OXS rellay to T12-2. This wire is located at Pin 3 -T12 Female at Bulkhead with an ouput of 13.8 Volts.
This is my Confusion..! "

Please re-read my previous post...

1) There is no ground on pin 15 at the ECU. Pin 15 at the ECU drives the FV.

2) The factory Diagram is WRONG. You can see there are two T12 pin 2's. One of these is wrong. I said where I think the error is. What do you have connected to T12 pin 4? Brown wires are ALWAYS ground in the Porsche wiring world, as far as I know.

3) Until you can verify that your O2 ECU harness is wired properly you are wasting your time making voltage measurements. The wiring harness is the first thing you should concentrate on. Use a test light, an ohmmeter, or whatever you have at hand to "ring out" and verify the wiring harness. This is a simple continuity check between the connectors involved, and doesn't involve measuring voltages. In my opinion, until you have done this basic step you will never get anywhere locating your problem.

[vizail]

Jim

I just Performed a test with a Voltmeter and a test Light. I will Organize the Information and will Post Later Today or Tomorow.

Thanks for the help.

Cordially

Vic

[vizail]

Jim

Ok let me try to make sence of the findings in my recent checks. As you sugested in your lates Post .I performed a continuity Test between the T12 Female connector at the Bulkhead and the OXS Control Conecctor

Yesterday morning I desing a chart and made a drawing of the OXS Control Connector disconected from the OXS Cont. Unit.


The following results:
From the OXS Control 35 Pin-To Engine T12-Female and other Components

Continuity..*(continuity)
Pin #1 not in Use
Pin #2 GreenOXS Sensor
interior Coaxial--------*
Pin #3 not in use
Pin #4 GreenOXS Sensor
Exterior Coaxial-------*
Pin #5 Brown wire 1.5mm
toT12-2-----------------*

Pin #6 Green 0.75mm
To terminal #6 -------*
Acc. Enrich Cont.
to Pin T12 Pin #3-----*

Pin #7 Blue/green 0.75 to
T12 Pin #9 ------------*

Pin #8 Black/white 0.75
To Pin 87
OXS Relay--------------*

Pin #9 Not in Use
Pin #10 Not in use
Pin #11 not in Use

Pin #12 Blue/ White wire
to Acc. Enrichment
Control Pin #2----------*

Pin#13 Not in Use

Pin#14 green/ black wire
to Acc. Enrich. Cont
Pin #1-----------------*

Pin #15 Black/Red 0.75
To T12-1-----------------*

Pin #16 Brown 1.5mm-------*

Pin #17 green/white
0.75mm---------------*

__________________________________________________ __

Checking the T12 Female Connector with a Voltmeter " Engine Running", I get voltage on the following female Pins. 1-2-3-4-10-11
The same check with a Test ligth- Only terminal T12-4 light's up.
__________________________________________________ __
With a Test Light..!
Checking the T12 Male Conector from the engine , Test ligth to a powered fuse at the Regulator Panet at the Engine I get a light at pin's 1-2-3-4-10
__________________________________________________ __


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MALE AND FEMALE CONECCTOR


My modest Coclusion is the the engine Harnnes from the T12 to engine is grounded or some cables came in contact with each other and the OXS Control Unit is defective.
__________________________________________________ __
Every Time I connect the T12,s and start the engine fuse #18 5amp burn . It will not bur if I leave the T12 disconected
__________________________________________________ __

This is it

Really Hope you can Help

Cordially

Vic

[Jim Williams]

Vic,

I can't make out everything in the photo, so I'll have to rely on the text in your post. I had to make up a sketch from the words in order to follow along.

The cable from the 35-pin connector to T12 appears to have the right connections. You get a test light indication at T12 pin 4 which reinforces what I said about the power connection for the frequency valve being at this pin, rather than it being at T12 pin 2 in the factory drawing, which is redundant with the other T12 pin 2.

Everything else looks proper EXCEPT where you get a test lamp to light on the male end of the T12 connector at pins 1 and 4. (Remember, the factory diagram is wrong). This is the Frequency Valve connection where it should have an open circuit on both ends when the T12 male and female connectors are disconnected from each other. So you should not get a light here. Also looking at your sketch, you show a ground indication on these same pins. Once the FV is disconnected at the valve itself, a test light should determine which wire has the short.

You would get a test light indication at pin 2 as this is engine ground, and pin 3 as this is one side of a closed switch with the other side grounded.

From what I interpret from this, it sounds like a short to ground in the frequency valve wiring. I haven't looked at the frequency valve electrical connections in some time, but think there is a 2-pin connector directly on the FV. If you reach around the engine and unplug this connection, and find the lamp still lights or you still get a gound indication, I think you may have found your problem.

Hope this helps, let us know what you find.

[vizail]

Jim

In my chart Items with (*) means continuity..!

But anyway check this out...!

I took the rubber boot of and disconect the connectors behind the trottle body . Peel off the terminal rubber protector for the one that was connected to the FV and found that the wires and connector belog to the Plate Sensor...??? and the one conected to the Plate Sensor belong to the FV... A mayor Gremmlin .To me the misplaced connector was retro-powering the system..!
I reconect the proper connector to the FV and to the Plate Sensor and the problem was solved
I reconnect the T12 and #18 fuse did not burn the FV began buzzing and everything looks ok.

Tomorow I'll replace the rubber Boot and will start the car and will let you know
As far as I know all the components are working. I only suspect that the Plate sensor migth be damaged

It appears that the misplaced conectors produced a short...!!!
Stay Tunned..!!!

Thanks for the help

You and you CIS Page are a great Help

Cordially

Vic


PS. You Have a pm

[vizail]

Jim Williams

"At last fixed" .... After all this time I got it . Everything is working "Ok" Just the OXS Sensor is disconected. I need a new male conector for the OXS Sensor Mine has the exterior coaxial cable disabled.
My nigthmares and headacke's are the result of a Nasty practical Joke from the mechanic that rebuilt the Engine. The so called expert misplaced the cables .., The rest is History...!
Besides OXS Male Connector I just need to rebuilt the Starter.

" I wonder if one of you Guys have a pix of the male conector for the OXS Sensor...the one located under the fuel Filter?"

My Gratitude to Mr. Jim Williams and his CIS Page, and Mr. John Walker for providing a copy of the Original 1981-83 SC Wiring Diagrams

Cordially

Vic

[Gunter]

Vic: Congrats on a nasty mix-up; that's beyond a joke! If you don't require OX sensor for aircare, leave it disconnected and replace the CAT converter with a bypass pipe, you'll gain about 10-15 horses. I have no CAT, the OX sensor is disconnected and I have SSI headers.
You must be a happy man now. Invite that Mechanic for coffee and put some Exlax in his cup.

[vizail]

Gunter

Thank's for the reply.
Hey man...needles to say I had a nasty argument with him some time back, that's why I do my own Porsche mechanic's now. I rather spent some time after work and do it myself.
What realy hit me is that he is one of the most prestigious mechanic's down here. A disgrace for him and his busines because the word about mi car has spread around.
Too much "Cocaine up his nose...!"

Yes I'm considering a Cat-bypass Specially the Fabianni.
Anyway I can sleep better now that I have solve this problem with my car.
I'll keep you Guys updated in the RESTO process.
Thank's for the good advice and for being there when I need you Guys...!

Cordially

Vic

[HKZ Bob]

Originally Posted by vizail

Jim
Thanks for the reply.

We have the Same Diagrams Ok ..,But in yours the T12-2 between the Frequency Valve and the Pin 87b OXS relay Black/ red wire that then again goes to Pin #8 Acc. Enrichment Control,Black /red wire to Pin#4, was corrected?
No Wonder I was Confused

Loren sugested that the OXS Control Unit K-Jetronics is defective. He sugested that I should have ground on Pin 5 and Pin15 from the Lambda Unit. I have a 1.5mm brown wire that goes to Pin 2 at the T12 connector and instead of ground I have 8.0 to 9.0 volts engine running. I have groun from Lambda Unit Pin 16 . I have another T12-2 in the Factory Diagrans that is a black/red wire that runs from Pin 8 Acceleration Enrich. Unit to Pin 87b OXS rellay to T12-2. This wire is located at Pin 3 -T12 Female at Bulkhead with an ouput of 13.8 Volts.
This is my Confusion..!
If you have the Originals Factory Diagrams for 1981 to 83 911SC you will see my meaning
I also perform the following test on this Brown wire from Pin 5 Lambda Connector to T12-Pin#2 .
With the 35 Pin Connector disconected from the OXS Cont. Unit, I ran a 1.0mm wire from Pin 5 at Lambda conector to Pin #2 at T12. "I found Continuity."
Every time I run the car I get Voltage in the Brown wire From Pin#5(Lambda) to Pin #2 at T12
How could this be posible if I should have Ground on this Brown wire.
I will try to Post the Diagrams.

My Friend.. be patient with me ok
I will keep in touch with you and update you

I check all the wires Connected and disconected from the Lambda Unit. I peel of the Black tubig Insulator and perform Coninuity and Voltage reading from and between segments.
O peel of the Black Insulator tubing and found that the wires were glued eithr by heat or other means. Is this Ok? I separated each one of them.



You can see the brown 1.5mm wire from Pin 5 at Lambda to Pin 2 at T12 Female


I also see the Coaxial Green OXS Sensor wire splited.. outside wires protected with black insulator to Pin #4 at Lambda Connector and the internal wire of the OXS Sensor Green wire to Pin #2 Lambda Connector

I will Give you more information on this proyect Tomorow.

Have a happy Mothers day with your wife and childrens or your Mother

Cordially

Vic

Which relay is the Oxygen Relay?
The one left the Jetronic. Like to pull the relay on my car to disconnect the Frequency Valve.
BR Bob

[don gilbert]

the relay is the one not attached to the ecm, why would you want to dissc. the freq. valve?

[HKZ Bob]

My friends frequency valve is always powered, even with no key in the ignition.

Looking for root cause

BR
Bob

[don gilbert]

He has the wrong relay, the plastic 5 pins from the zone look correct, but are not. Or something is wired wrong. There are two hot wires powering up the relay, one is 12v with key in run poss, one is 12v constant, check the wiring on the relay. F/V should only pulse when f/pump is running. get the correct relay from Pelican, 20 bucks. Wouldn't hurt to get a new 02 sensor while your at it. You can get a Bosch one wire from Orillys for 17 bucks.

[HKZ Bob]

Thanks what is the Bosch Bosch Part No.


Thanks for the help.

The relay is full corosion need to be replaced.

BR
Bob

[don gilbert]

you dont need a part # Just tell them you want a bosch 1 wire, they are all the same, this one just wont have the rubber grommett on it where it goes through the tin. Or, if you local parts counter man is a counter boy, tell him you want one for an 84 buick lesabre, or any 80-84 gm product.

[SCWDP911]

not to bicker Don, but they've found us out - $19 now! Wanted to call you this weekend, but had too much going on and I am out of town on WE-TH-FR. Maybe this weekend we can finally get together down there.

[don gilbert]

Hey Shane, are you sitting at home looking out the window to, I hate snow. Still, at 19 bucks its still cheaper than paying 120.00 just to have the rubber grommet. Cant wait to get my hands on your car, Hope we can get together soon.

[SCWDP911]

Originally Posted by don gilbert

Hey Shane, are you sitting at home looking out the window to, I hate snow. Still, at 19 buck cheaper than paying 120.00 just to have the rubber grommet. Cant wait to get my hands on your car, Hope we can get together soon.

yeah, 3 inches and falling, though it is not nerly as heavy as it was earlier this morning. The forecast as I recall was for a 40% chance of rain today... yeah...